“The poison spreads quickly across the food web — up to the top predator, mountain lions.” —Julia J. Di Sieno, Animal Rescue Team, Inc.
Like other nature lovers, I rejoiced when I read the June 29 Ojai Valley News article by Sally Rice about how Rancho Matilija residents are managing the rodent population without traps or poisons and reducing the use of pesticides for weed abatement.
The article described how Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, had a field trip during his recent visit to Ojai. He viewed the owl boxes placed in trees which encourage these nocturnal predators to nest and hunt in the area. The article concluded with this far-reaching statement from Pacelle: “A program like this one, when it’s successful, can become a blueprint for other communities to follow. They’ve restored the predators to be nature’s rodenticides — rather than poisoning the rodents and having the poison cycle through the food chain. This is the way nature knows how to maintain a balance.”
When I read this I thought to myself, “Not only is this program a blueprint for other communities, it can be a model for the entire Ojai Valley!”
Like many Ojai residents, I am concerned about the use of poisons in my own neighborhood. On my walks near the Pratt Trail area, are small white T shaped pipe structures. The label on the pipe says “Caution Poison Bait Do Not Touch. Wildlife Management Professionals.” These pipes are filled with blue rock like pellets –rat poison. The label lists the ingredient Bromadiolone which is extremely toxic for all mammals. A single dose may cause death in rodents.
We are among millions of people worldwide who use anticoagulant poisons, such as D-Con and Tomcat. These easy to use, inexpensive and convenient, poison may seem like a good way to control pests. But for wildlife, rat poison is the deadly “gift that keeps on giving.”
My friend, Julia J. Di Sieno, executive director of Animal Rescue Team, inc., recently stated “ Our rehab work is becoming more and more depressing because humans always want a quick fix. The more rodents killed by poison the more predators we lose! Trust me, there is nothing worse than watching a helpless eagle, hawk, bobcat, fox, fawn or coyote suffer and die a slow agonizing death. Please do our native wildlife a huge favor, and remove all D con type pesticides in your homes immediately.“
A few weeks ago Julia rescued a very sick bobcat. In a recent email she shared details of the experience of rescuing the bobcat and what she learned after he died. She gave me permission to publish this here. She wrote:
“The young male bobcat was seen roaming around for two days, and seemed very lethargic. Once we stabilized him and administered fluids, we discovered the bobcat had notoedric mange. Sadly, all our efforts to save the bobcat failed.
I immediately contacted the state Department of Fish & Game veterinarians, as well as Laurel Klein, a UCLA Ph.D. candidate. The request to send the bobcat’s body to UC Davis for necropsy was immediate.
A previously rare disease among wild cats has become the primary cause of death among bobcats in the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area (SMMNRA).
The cats are dying from mange, a skin disease caused by a tiny parasite. The use of rat poisons is likely the underlying cause of the dramatic increase in mange-related deaths, as well as the direct cause of death for many other predatory wildlife and animals. “
Through the writings of Julia Di Sieno, I learned that National Park Service researchers report that mange has wiped out more than half of the bobcat population in the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area over the last nine years in areas where they’ve focused their research.
These researchers have been studying bobcats in the SMMNRA since 1996. They are at the forefront of research into the effects of anticoagulant rat poisons on wildlife.
Necropsies (animal autopsies) have revealed that all of the cats that died of mange had ingested anti-coagulant rat poisons.
Anticoagulants interfere with vitamin K processing. They inhibit blood clotting, eventually causing the victims to bleed to death internally. A poisoned rat becomes an irresistible, slow-moving meal for larger predators, who in turn are poisoned and devoured.
The poison spreads quickly across the food web — up to the top predator, mountain lions. Two local mountain lion deaths due to secondary exposure have been documented. Many other SMMNRA animals, including foxes, hawks, owls and coyotes, also are being killed by secondary exposure to anticoagulants.
In an eight-year study of coyotes, it was found that rat poison was the cause of death for more than 25 percent of known mortalities. It was right behind traffic fatalities as a leading cause of coyote deaths.
Worldwide, researchers have documented many more cases of poisoned wildlife, including hawks, deer (through direct ingestion), and coyotes in New York; endangered kit foxes in Bakersfield; weasels and owls in Europe; and owls and hawks in New Zealand and Australia.
In California, about 75 percent of mountain lions tested had been exposed to anticoagulants, which have increased in potency over the last several decades.
Mange is not yet considered epizootic among SMMNRA mountain lions, but individual cases of mountain lions with mange have been reported to have anticoagulants in their systems.
Mange is caused by a parasitic mite that burrows into its host’s skin. Smaller than a millimeter, the mites are barely visible to the naked eye. Their tunneling causes intense itching and encrusting of the skin, which can easily become infected.
Once a bobcat becomes sick, its behavior changes. Researchers suspect the bobcats’ home ranges become increasing smaller. They become less afraid of humans or perhaps less able to run away from them, and may be more visible in residential areas, and seem to become less interested in food, but are extremely thirsty and are attracted to water sources.
The Environmental Protection Agency cited the SMMNRA team’s findings when it revised its policies to restrict the use of newer and more toxic “second generation” anti-coagulants. The team’s research could lead to new legislation or regulations, further restricting their use and possibly help prevent mange outbreaks in other areas. “
Ironically, using poison to kill rats is wiping out the very predator population that could help keep them under control. As the residents at Rancho Matilija and many other communities have discovered, the best pest control is to encourage natural predators, such as owls.
This summer, after years of study, regulations take effect nationwide banning the most toxic, long-lasting rat poisons from hardware stores, big-box home improvement centers and other consumer outlets. Please reconsider before using any toxic rodenticides. You may even save the life of your own pets!
Here in Ojai, the area the Ojai Wildlife League (OWL) is especially concerned about is Lake Casitas. We do not know how much the new fence has impacted the predator population around the lake but regular visitors to the lake report that the rodents appear to be out of control. we have great concern over possible rodent poisoning, as was reported in the past, and the resulting consequences as the poison travels up the food chain.
OWL members will continue to express these concerns at future Casitas Municipal Water District board meetings.
Barn owls catch an average of 1000 rodents per year each! The Raptor Center has owl boxes ready for $150.00 and they explain how to mount them. They also have owlets ready for which they ask a donation. More info: 649 6884.
http://www.scvas.org/pdf/cbrp/BuildingBarnOwlBoxes.pdf,
You can also find out how to install owl nesting boxes and perches at www.owlnestboxes.com and www.wildwingco.com.
Ojai Valley News Editorial, July 15, 2011, Stop using rat poisons
Suza Francina is a founding member of the Ojai Wildlife League and former mayor of Ojai. For more information visit www.Ojaiwildlifeleague.com and www.animalrescueteam.net.
{ 43 comments… read them below or add one }
I have a friend that actually keeps rats as pets! Maybe there is a way to capture them. And here is an interesting connection to our Ojai Valley:
http://www.petrats.org/rainbowremembrances.html
Brian, thank you for that link. I’m not yet familiar with all the different kinds of rats but from around age ten to sixteen I had the most wonderful tame pet white rats with pink/red eyes and also black and white rats that rode around on my shoulder. We used to play hide-and-go seek. I would put the cage at one end of our back yard with the door open and go sit quite a distance away. “Squeeker Coolie” would come out of the cage onto the grass, sit up and snif the air with his dear little nose, and then run in my direction until he found me. Then he would scurry up my leg into my waiting arms…
Suza,
Thank you for this valuable information!!! I think we are edging closer to understanding that there are smarter and safer approaches than poisons.
Kris
Very tragic to lose a Bobcat to mange. But it was unclear to me the connection between mange and anticoagulants. Does the mange debilitate the cats, so they begin hunting closer to civilization and hence, are exposed to more rat poison (and feral cats, which also get this type of mange?) Or does having low grade anticoagulant toxicity inhibit the cat’s grooming and immunity to mange?
Either way, encouraging use of natural predation over poisons is an important message.
K
Karen, thank you for your Comment. I forwarded your question to Julia J. Di Sieno, http://www.animalrescueteam.net
Julia Di Sieno forwarded the queston re bobcats to Laurel E. Klein, Ph.D. Candidate,
University of California, Los Angeles, Dept. of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology.
Here is her reply:
Hi all,
I am a UCLA Ph.D. student studying mange and anticoagulant in bobcats
around Los Angeles and Ventura Counties. I am collaborating with
National Park Service biologists who initially documented a mange
epizootic (the animal equivalent of an epidemic) in Ventura County.
They found that all of their radio-collared bobcats that were dying
were exposed to high levels of anticoagulant rat poisons (>0.05ppm).
Given that notedric mange (the specific mite species that all of the
bobcats have had) has never before been documented to cause population
declines in wild cats, they proposed that anticoagulant exposure
increased bobcat susceptibility to fatal mange infection. The
mechanism, however, by which this could occur is unknown. Please see
my website: http://www.urbancarnivores.com for more information.
Taking an interest in this question, I’ve chosen to study this issue
for the past 5 years for my Ph.D. dissertation thesis. What I will
say is that the mechanism remains unknown despite my efforts. However,
I’ve just gotten to the stage where I am working in the lab with
samples I’ve collected. Hopefully the next 6-months-1 year that I will
be completing all lab work will be fruitful in uncovering what, if
any, relationship exists between anticoagulant exposure and mange
infection. I am doing several analyses for this effort including
genetic work, disease surveys, anticoagulant exposure assays, and
immune function assays for all bobcats I captured for this research.
I agree, in the very least, regardless of whether an actual
relationship exists between this disease and anticoagulant exposure in
bobcats, poisons affects many nontarget species and we should avoid
the use of them around our homes.
Best
Laurel Klein
http://www.urbancarnivores.com
Laurel E. Klein, Ph.D. Candidate
University of California, Los Angeles
Dept. of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
621 Charles E. Young Drive South
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1601
Cell: 214-729-2328
Lab: 310-825-5014
Thanks to Laurel Klein for the expanded explanation and for your dedication to researching this issue. K
@ Laurel: In cats, this mange is treated with ivermectin by injection. Can you use it in Bobcats? Heartworm an issue? K
A reply from Laurel:
You can treat with ivermectin but Revolution (salimectin) requires fewer doses and is topical. So I’ve treated bobcats with this and have gotten donations from Pfizer (who makes the drug) to give all bobcats we capture prophylactic doses of revolution at the time of capture. We will begin this program starting next week.
We have not seen heart worm in our bobcats though I’ve heard it is increasingly become an issue for domestic animals in our area. If this trend continues it could also become a problem for bobcats. I know of a population of bobcats in Florida with heart worm issues.
Best,
Laurel
http://www.urbancarnivores.com
Very informative. I never thought about it working it’s way up through the food chain before, but it makes perfect sense. Another reason, besides torturing an animal, not to use this stuff! Thanks for the post. Now, if we can just stop people from spraying their weeds. Ugh.
Here are two more Ventura County links that may help answer some of the questions I’ve received since the article was published.
http://www.wildlifecareofventura.org/docs/2007_Poison_Control.pdf
http://www.wildlifecareofventura.org/docs/2006_Spring_Newsletter.pdf
I am still trying to get to the truth with regards to which poisons actually go up the food chain. I’ve had a couple of sources tell me that the professional-grade rat poison that goes in the locked boxes (meaning only a rat or smaller animal could access it), desiccates the rat and does not go up the food chain. Western Exterminator further asserts that it is consumed in such small amounts that it is impossible to poison the animal that might consume the rat. Perhaps this poison is different than D-Con? Please, no links, just a factual paragraph or two here would be most helpful. Thank you.
Lisa, I’d like to know the answer to your question too, so to be on the safe side I’ll forward it to the wildlife experts I’m consulting with (which is what I should have done yesterday when you first asked about this). I’ll also glean what I can from their websites which have pages on poisons and will consolidate into a few factual paragraphs.
Hi Lisa, I think it’s best if I publish Laurel’s entire reply to your question.
Laurel E. Klein, Ph.D. Candidate
University of California, Los Angeles
Dept. of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
Hi,
It is unfortunate my website was not included in the article since it
answers many of the questions people are emailing around. Please
refer to it for other questions and feel free to email me if the
information is not adequate: http://www.urbancarnivores.com.
Questions people ask let me know where the website needs filling out!
In regards to these poisons that go in bait boxes, they are likely
anticoagulant rodenticides which can take 10+ days to kill whatever
animal consumes them. Thus, it is unlikely the animal is staying
inside the locked box the entire time. Further, the animal may view
what is found in the bait box as a food source and thus return to
increase the dose of poison that is in the animal’s system before
finally dying days later. Anticoagulants rodenticides (rat poisons)
are the most common form of rodent control worldwide, and we have
documented well that anticoagulants are used widely in Los Angeles and
Ventura Counties. We have documented mountain lions, bobcats, and
coyotes to die directly of anticoagulant poisoning, and that more than
80% of each of these species tested are exposed to anticoagulants.
People have frequently called me to see if what exterminator companies
have told them about the “safety” of poisons to control rodents rings
true. Never has anyone called me and the exterminator has said that
there is indeed danger (even minimal) in the poisons they are using,
including anticoagulant rodenticides. Exterminators are selling a
product. Despite warnings from the State and the EPA, exterminators
are sticking fast to these products being safe. I guess a question to
ask yourself is if you want to believe them and would be willing to
risk your pet or child being exposed?
Best
Laurel
It is a very lengthy reply that unfortunately does not directly answer the question of whether it is indeed true that locked bait box poison cannot secondarily poison and kill up the food chain.
…And I don’t know of anyone whose children would eat a dead rat!
I will forward Laurel your response and see if she has any further Comments. However, it stands to reason that a poison that detsroys anything has a rippling effect. Think of all the substances that we have been told are “safe” which turn out to be harmful.
Lisa, I’ve been deluged with questions/comments and have not had a chance to send all to Lauren. A board member of one of the local home associations contacte dme as they have to decide this week what to do about the rats. The anwer to his question I think relates to yours:
Q: Do you know if Zinc Phosphide rodenticides such as ZP Rodent Bait from Bell Labs are safer than anticoagulants? They seem safer since the toxicity of the inorganic material is short-lived and it can’t bioaccumulate, but I’m no chemist. If they are safer, we could end up compromising on them to avoid anticoagulants and still kill rats quickly.
Reply From: laurelklein@ucla.edu
To: SFrancina@aol.com
Subj: Re: Are Zinc Phosphide rodenticides such as ZP Rodent Bait from Bell Labs safer?
Laurel E. Klein, Ph.D. Candidate
University of California, Los Angeles
Dept. of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
621 Charles E. Young Drive South
Los Angeles, CA 90095-1601
Cell: 214-729-2328
Lab: 310-825-5014
http://www.urbancarnivores.com
——————————————————————————–
Hi,
We do not recommend poisons of any kind that are available in the
United States. Zinc phosphide has been demonstrated to have the
potential for secondary poisoning in carnivores, and is very
detrimental to nontarget animals such as birds. Knowing that it can
have secondary effects and also not having expertise in that area, I
prefer not to recommend it as a substitute. Studying anticoagulants
doesn’t make me an expert on rodent control- but I do recommend
contacting people at http://www.HungryOwl.org for more information in that arena.
In my reading I found that secondary exposure to zinc phosphide occurs
when predatory animals eat organisms that have zinc phosphide in their
gastrointestinal tract. Further, one website suggested that most
predators evicerate their prey and don’t eat the instestinal tract.
I’d like to say that in my experience performing necropsies of various
predatory species, when the prey item is small, they eat the whole
prey item. I’ve found whole mice and rats in the stomachs of bobcats
and owls. So, if you are targeting the smaller mammals, those are
exactly the ones that may lead to secondary exposure events. Also
consider that if a small mammal is slowed because it is poisoned, it
becomes an easier target for predation.
Good luck-
Laurel
The assertion is that a rat or smaller animal ingests such a small amount that it will not harm the larger predator. I have messages the Ojai Raptor Center for a more definitive answer and will report back.
From Julia Di Sieno, http://www.animalrescueteam.net
I’m here to validate and echo Dr. Laurel! I DO ALL THE RESCUE AND REHAB WORK FOR OVER A 200 MILE stretch.
We rescue a VERY high volume of poisoned foxes, coyotes, bobcats, tree and ground squirrels, hundreds of BOP, and now fawns, and deer. It’s also been documented that 3rd hand poison was found positive in several mountain lions. A STATE protected animal!
I recently submitted a letter to our editor which was published. I failed to add Dr. Laurels website, which upsets me, but all her contact info. was published. I received a HUGE response from many readers, thanking me for the informative letter. Many callers have fired their pest control agencies due to the letter. People are misinformed, and NOT told the entire truth!
Just this week i was called out to 3 juvi bobcat kittens acting strangely. The call was on a 20 acre per parcel gated community. What i witnessed out there was appalling. I found over 20 T Shaped bait traps filled with D Con, the greenish blue pellets.
One more from Julia:
Pest control agencies make their living by selling and killing animals…. Get it!
Julia J. Di Sieno
Executive Director
Animal Rescue Team, inc.
805 896-1859
http://www.animalrescueteam.net
If Julia’s assertions have one shred of truth, I would think she (and many others, like the Environmental Defense Council) would have a cause of action to bring a lawsuit against the pest control companies that use these products.
Lisa, as moderator of my articles on the Ojai Post, I have the right to edit my Comments and to delete Comments that I feel could jeapordize a person or their organization. Some Comments are excerpted from private emails that I normally edit. Thank you for understanding. Please go to Julia’s website and see the important work she is doing 24 hours a day, all year long.
Lisa, I will pass this Comment on to Julia as well. Thank you.
I think there are defiantely other choices besides poisoning rats. Lets look at alternative methods before we end up poisoning other animals. Heck, in midevil times they had “rat catchers” , there are probably methods that have been lost though the ages that could be employed. I’m sure there are some entrepreneurs out there that could fill this void.
Thanks, Brian, I agree!
What do you do with them once you catch them? What about feeding them birth control?
Lisa, a friend of mine who has different kinds of animals, including birds, explained to me the two main types (I think) in Ojai… the bird seed and feed ofcourse attracts rats… she catches them in live traps, says they are very intelligent. She releases them in a location far away from homes but where they can survive…and probably end up eaten by coyotes, owls, etc. so their population stays in balance. At least, that is what we hope.
I too keep thinking of birth control but don’t know how that works if eaten by other species. Every owl that dies from eating a poisoned rat –and then the dead or dying owl is eaten by another predator– actually means several thousand rats not eaten (over the owl’s normal life span).
Wildlife Care of Ventura County lists plants that repel rats and other Natural Rodent Deterrents: http://www.wildlifecareofventura.org
What about electronic tracking collars? That way there would be quantitative data on the effectiveness of a mitigation program. I think there are grants for similar programs.
Brian, the grant is just silly, but there have been occasions when I wished for a tracking collar so that I could see how they got into my attic so that I could plug the hole. Instead, I got my trees trimmed. Anyway, there is clearly a problem in Ojai; the population is out of balance.
Two items in an email today from Julia Di Sieno, one sad and one hopeful:
FYI, today a sick bird was delivered that was found in a T shape rodent bait dispenser. The bird died within hours. A VERY rare bird as well, a Clapper Rail. We did all we could to save this one.
We have also been experimenting with gopher and ground squirrel control using planted Lavender. Burrowing rodents hate the smell. One local Lavender farm up here is now selling Lavender mulch for rodent control and its proven to be VERY effective. Aside from all the vineyards we now have many local Lavender farms, and you cannot find a single rodent anywhere at all the growers properties, barn areas etc…
Julia J. Di Sieno,
Executive Director
Animal Rescue Team, inc.
805 896-1859
http://www.animalrescueteam.net
Which of these properties are rodent free? I would love to go check them out.
Citations and photos are always helpful.
Another response to the question if any rodenticides are safe, from the Hungry Owl website: http://www.hungryowl.org/rodenticide.html
THERE IS NO SAFE RAT POISON! Do not take the word of pest control operators – do your own research by looking up the Material Data Sheets for the active ingredient in any pesticide or rodenticide that a pest control company recommends!
Commercial rodenticides contain an anti-coagulant rodenticide called brodifacoum (broh-dif’-a-coom) that causes secondary poisoning when raptors consume rodents that have been poisoned. In studies in both California and New York, brodifacoum was found to account for 80% of the secondary poisonings by rodenticides, even though it accounted for only 20% of sales. Brodifacoum is found in the following commonly used products: D-con, Talon, Havoc. It is extremely dangerous to birds through secondary exposure. It can harm pets as well if they consume a poisoned rodent. It is marketed as a “single feed” rodenticide, BUT the rodent takes several days to die and during that time it can continue feeding on the poison, so that is extremely toxic if eaten by a predator. The poison causes thirst which causes the rodent to go outdoors in search of water and this is when it is likely to get preyed on by raptors or cats…. to read more:
http://www.hungryowl.org/rodenticide.html
Weeding through the exclamation points and all caps and non-commital words like “likely”… If this is true, Hungry Owl, etc., has a cause of action to bring litigation against the pest control companies who tell their customers otherwise.
Lisa, I’m not sure how to respond to the good point you make about litigation. I do know there are so many similar scenarios where claims are made for a product but the actual results are far different, especially in the medical field. Will ask Julia Di Sieno when I get a chance
Meanwhile, did you see this item on Hungry Owl website?
” Only one product has been available that kills rodents without causing secondary poisoning to other creatures: Rodetrol. Unfortunetly, this product is currently unavailable as it has been pulled from the market for “reformulating” and we have not been able to get any information on when it will become available again. This product is effective, especially when mixed with an attractant like peanut butter. Currently, it can be found only on e-Bay. Rodetrol does not use poison – it interferes with the unique water absorption system of rats. ”
Source: http://www.hungryowl.org/rodenticide.html
I think live traps and the rat zappers seem most humane short term. I am not advocating killing anything but just mentoning this for those who need a quick solution.
Great info!
The thing to do at this point is to try and put these pest control companies out of business. They are essentially killing our wildlife and in some cases endangered species.
Whatever kills one life form will kill all life forms.
A new Guest Commentary by my friend Julia Di Sieno of Animal Rescue Team, Inc.
Wildlife Poisoning
Recently Animal Rescue Team, Inc. rescued a very sick bobcat on 20 acres near Calzada Road in Santa Ynez.
The young male bobcat was seen roaming around for two days, and seemed very lethargic. Once we stabilized him and administered fluids, we discovered the bobcat had notoedric mange. Sadly, all our efforts to save the bobcat failed.
I immediately contacted the state Department of Fish & Game veterinarians, as well as Laurel Klein, a UCLA Ph.D. candidate. The request to send the bobcat’s body to UC Davis for necropsy was immediate.
A previously rare disease among wild cats has become the primary cause of death among bobcats in the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area (SMMNRA). The cats are dying from mange, a skin disease caused by a tiny parasite. The use of rat poisons is likely the underlying cause of the dramatic increase in mange-related deaths, as well as the direct cause of death for many other predatory wildlife and animals.
To read rest of the story http://www.mountainlion.org/index.asp
Did you hear about all the cattle they’re having to slaughter because of the heat?
Just realized this is where all my email responses were going. Too bad I didn’t know beforehand the direct questions to which I could have responded @Lisa who thinks children are not at risk of anticoagulant poisoning: While you may be skeptical in secondary poisoning of wildlife, it seems you believe this is the only possible transmission route for children to be exposed to the poisons. Where rats can enter in an out of bait stations because the poisons take days to actually kill the animal, so can those same rats (or whatever you are targeting with the poisons) carry the poison pellets in and out of the bait stations along with them. And in fact, it is the biology of the rats and small target species to carry potential “food” items from a source into a “hiding” place to save for later. So, children need not eat the dead rats that have consumed the poisons, but can consume the poisons themselves if they discover those “hiding” spots that poisons are cached, or poison pellets dropped on the way to a “hiding” spot. Further, if you believe that animals are secondarily poisoned only when consuming already dead rats, you are likewise mistaken. Since it can take up to 10 days for the poisons to kill the pests you are targeting, any number of predatory species can, in the meantime, consume the poisoned rat still alive and moving around (and in and out of houses and residential areas if you think that using poisons ONLY inside your home keeps wildlife safe). A laundry list is on my website (http://www.urbancarnivores.com/poisons/) of some of the many species already documented poisoned, provided specifically for your convenience if you choose to truly investigate the issue. However, by additionally providing you with the information of the delay between exposure to poisons and death of the species targeted by the poisons, hopefully one would deduce the risk for themselves- and understand the mechanism by which secondary poisoning may occur. After all, as a consumer of this product, one should understand the risks for themselves. And please remember, those conducting this research do so because they are passionate about the issue.
And yes, children are exposed (though it is not my field of expertise)…
http://www.truth-out.org/kids-eating-rat-poison-acceptable-risk-alec/1323272700
Thank you so much, Laurel Klein Serieys. I will study this (just read quickly) and quote your expertise and sources in future editorials.