Food for thought, and a post for community discussion…
This year, as happens occasionally, Independence Day is on a Sunday. When that happens, Ojai’s annual parade moves in one direction or another, and the celebration takes place on Not-Independence Day. In the past, the entire program – parade and fireworks – has shifted dates, but this year sees a split: the parade will be on Saturday July 3rd, and the fireworks will be on the evening of Sunday July 4th. (Federally, I-Day will be observed on Monday, July 5th).
i inquired about the shift via email to the parade committee, and got this response:
The parade was moved to July 3rd because so many people believe for religious reasons and other reasons there should not be an event like this on a Sunday. We had also debated doing the fireworks on the 3rd as well, but decided since it was at night, it would not interfere with churches and that is Independence Day.
Since my inquiry, the following line has been added to the Calendar page of www.ojaifourthofjulyevents.com:
The parade is on July 3, 2010 as to not conflict with religious beliefs and the fireworks will remain on July 4, 2010 since that is Independence Day.
My dad, whose family has a long history in the valley and who has a personal and professional interest in horses, claims that the “no parades on Sunday” tradition was originally grounded in matters of practicality: horses tied up outside of churches could be spooked by a loud event moving down the street, and had nothing to do with “religious beliefs”.
The questions loom large and obvious to me, but i’ll ask ‘em anyway to kick things off:
• Are the fireworks more important than the parade? Why lock the former onto the date, but shift the latter?
• Would it make sense to be clear about what “religious (and other) reasons” preclude having a parade on a Sunday? Can anyone name such a belief?
• If it historically isn’t religious at all but about the comfort of unattended horses, does it make sense to continue that tradition when there are no longer any animals to be concerned about?
What do you think, Ojai?
{ 36 comments… read them below or add one }
What happened to the separation of church and state?
Separation of church and state? The framers of the Constitution were very clear on this matter. There is no valid reason that the parade or the fireworks should be moved, certainly not to accommodate some religion. What about Judaism or Seventh Day Adventism? We’ve never moved the parade when it falls on a Saturday, or the fireworks when they are on a Friday night. Why is it somehow okay to move the Independence Day Parade for religion?
I wrote some more on this, but I decided to post is as a separate piece so as not to clog your post Evan.
Is there a parade in Ventura on the 4th that Ojai might compete with for participants or spectators? That would be a far better reason to host it on the 3rd.
The parade/horse/sunday thing was first told to me about the Rose Parade being on Monday January 2, every time such a date occurs. Many other parades follow the same tradition so as not to compete with churches who often participate in the parade or are located on the parade route. Though any parade not being broadcast coast-to-coast doesn’t have to begin at 8am… so it seems like a silly tradition to invent/uphold.
This is corny. 4th of July is 4th of July. What could be more spiritual than all people in the community gathering together to celebrate a holiday together?
And the real Sabbath Day…is Saturday…are our Jewish friends less-religious?
(BTW….I think most of you know I’m a church musician as well as my other music.)
The only thing unholy is the expensive, polluting, animal-scaring fire hazards we call fireworks. Barbary!
Smitty West
All hail and bow the knee to the Venerable Day of the Sun. This very clearly must be a pagan conspiracy.
Nowhere in the constitution does it say that there is a seperation of church and state.
True. This was a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson as a synopsis to the Separation Clause of the First Amendment.
This is, however, the spirit of the First Amendment as described by James Madison, the principal author of the Bill of Rights. In his words, “…practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States.”
I hope you all send these sensible Comments to the Ojai Valley News as Letters to the Editor. Except Brian, ofcourse.
2004, the last time this happened, was my first 4th of July in Ojai. I had out of town guests (both celebrating birthdays) and, as appalling as we thought moving national holiday celebration for one particular religion was, we went to the parade. As much as I love a good parade (and I think small town parades are the best), I don’t think I can do it again. I’m still undecided. Are you going evan? One thing I know for sure, I will never financially contribute to the Fourth of July Events Committee until they change their policy. Just as I will never contribute to the Catholic Church until they change their policies. Go to church Monday night if your so committed and it’s so damn important to you.
The Ojai Peace Coalition is not participating in the parade this year (for matters of logistics, not principle), and i think i will still attend personally, if for no better reason than to be able to make an informed, first-hand commentary afterward. That and, no matter the day, gathering with my community in a celebratory spirit is as much “god” and “church” as anything else.
Suza,
Stop looking at, buying, reading or mentioning the OVN. It is a useless right-wing rag now being run by the owner from I think Tennessee. How less Ojai could it get? My hope is that all of these recent changes in editor/publisher are merely the run up to it’s eventual collapse from terminal irrelevancy. Sorry for the staffers, but at a certain point it should be impossible to work somewhere and simply look the other way.
Sean, as long as there are still businesses willing to advertise, deaths, used cars, garage sales, sports, city council meetings, and crime, the OVN will likely continue to exist. Aside from the Ojai Valley Neighbor story being pulled from the front page (just one of the good things Bradigan instituted — the paper was all b/w before him too) the paper doesn’t really look or read that much differently then it has in the past 10 years that I’ve lived here) Buchanan is from Alabama. He’s owned the OVN since 2001 when I was a reporter there.
I actually like the fact that Buchanan has stepped in. Just like all other new comers, now he gets to be the fresh meat on the street. He’ll get to meet everyone and become a part of this constantly evolving community. With any luck and/or good fortune he’ll bring the OVN from a three, to a seven minute read.
I admit knowing nothing about the present owners or any of the inside politics.
Having seen many other struggling Ojai print publications go under over the years, I should explain my loyalty to Ojai’s only bi weekly print paper.
I have a long history of writing for the Ojai Valley News, beginning in the early 1970′s through the 1980′s as a weekly (paid) columnist, under editor Fred Volz. The longtime OVN staff members have always treated me fairly and published all the editorials and letters I’ve submitted on a regular basis for almost forty years.
I essentially only have good things to say about the Ojai Valley News. If it weren’t for this community institution, I may have never set foot in Ojai. I will forever read it aloof and smugly and still feel grateful.
Andrew, there is a street faire in Ventura, but not a parade. I’ve never heard it mentioned as a direct or worrisome bit of competition, although i suppose that it technically is to a small degree.
i recall that as i was growing up, i heard a lot about how America is some kind of modern holy land, handed to the most choice Christians by Gawd hisself. Seems to me that if the United States of Christ is so ordained, then why not treat Independence Day as a religious holy-day? Why not, for one Sunday, wouldn’t churches be willing to reframe their worship service as a parade? i STILL have yet to hear what “religious reasons” or beliefs make parading inappropriate.
i think the “what about Jews and Adventists” argument is pretty poignant. The Constitutional argument might be overkill, since the text is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .” Putting a parade route over what might be the only access routes (by car, anyway) to certain houses of worship could be construed as “prohibiting the free exercise”, but that’d be quite a stretch. As far as moving a local parade or not, obviously Congress and laws are not involved.
Fortunately the Jews and the Adventists gather on El Roblar.
Indeed, Chris. i had occasion to drive the parade route today (also known as “through downtown Ojai”), and counted four Christian churches that i’m aware of that are either directly on the route or most easily accessed just off the route.
However, the point here never has been literal access to one’s house of worship. i hope that’s clear.
Okay 4th of July is not about religion…it’s about celebrating our independence. I think the committee wanted to move it because they didn’t want to lose the various churches participation in the parade. What happened to separation of church and state and why is this committee basing the the parade on religion? I think the parade committee needs to be revamped…it’s the same old bs every year anyway…it needs new blood and people who looks at celebrating our countries independence rather than the need to make “religious” organizations happy.
I suspect that the real reason is because Sunday church services will substantially impact attendance.
i think you’re precisely correct, Matthew.
Lots of calls both here and elsewhere for the Parade Committee to be revamped. i understand that serving on the committee may be as simple as attending one of their meetings and/or talking to Nancy Hill about joining. Think we could get two, three, five new people to put their volunteerism where their typing fingers are, and get on that committee?
Why are courtesy and inclusiveness being intolerantly characterized as “violation of separation of church and state” by the above posts? It is courteous to move the parade so that the large number of Ojai citizens who attend church services on Sunday morning are able to attend the parade as well.
If we had as large a proportion of our commmunity that held church services on Saturday as we do on Sunday, courtesy would dictate that we move the time of the parade so that they could attend it as well. It’s not possible to pick a time that will fit every last person’s schedule, but it is possible to do our best to respect other’s beliefs (since when does this violate the separation of church and state?) and include them in our common celebration.
Ojai Woman, you’re right: there isn’t a legitimate separation-of argument involved here, i don’t think. The issue – if there is one – is much more “spirit of the law” and is a matter of logistics. i think being open to moving the time of the parade is a fine suggestion, and i place it on equal footing with churches being willing to move the times of their worship services. if we are to live in community with compassion and respect, either one of those two solutions seems best.
I can’t imagine being in a room with any of you. How can you stand yourselves. If you don’t want to watch the 4th of July Parade on Saturday, do something else. Go away. The Ojai Parade is a community event with all volunteers. If you want to make a point, get together for a 4th of July celebration somewhere else.
ouch!
Karen, thanks for your comment. I stand myself just fine, thank you.
The old “love it or leave it” mantra is NOT living in community…it’s extremist and fanatical. Living in community is partly about making sure everyone’s needs are met, and that requires some difficult conversations…homogenizing a region to only those who love the same things in the same ways is NOT community…it’s a mindless, diversity-free cult.
It’s very clear that for many, moving the parade off of the actual holiday date does not meet some need, just as having a parade during one’s church time/day doesn’t meet needs for others. Our struggle is to find balance…a way to meet both those needs. So far, changing the time of either the parade or the church services, and still having both on the same day, seems to satisfy those viewpoints.
Please try to imagine being in a room with all of us, because ultimately, we are.
Why not very early services on Sundays that are the 4th of July? AND a parade too!
Maybe have it at night !
Evan,
You are always insightful and objective. Thank you for broaching this topic as I have been disappointed in the date shift of the Independence Day parade since the last time it happened. I’ve also wondered why the timing couldn’t simply be adjusted to accomodate the churches, as I imagine having multiple organizations reschedule their services would be much more difficult. The obstacle I arrive at is the heat. With many of the paraders in costume or performing, the heat early in the day is intense enough. To start the parade at or after noon instead would seem unbearable, both to the participants and the spectators.
I know I’m commenting not with a solution, but more questions. I wonder then if we could poll our local Sunday service churches and determine if they would be amenable to later services once every few years? Perhaps that has already been done?
I suppose moving the day of the parade to Saturday, hosting fireworks Sunday, and having work off Monday is sort of like a birthday with early and belated well wishers. We get to extend our celebration and enjoy it longer.
ooh, a “Rockets Red Glare” parade of lights! i like it, Brian!
Brian, you are on to something! It’s still light out quite late, why not have an evening parade? That way it’s not too hot, it’s still light, and people can go to church! I like it!
Well, I didn’t see this until the parade was over. It would appear much to the chagrin of the anti-religious in this blog that the parade was a success and the sky in fact did not fall. Tomorrow, all those terrible religious people who you feel are conspiring to ruin your weekend will go to their churches with all those children who were in the parade and do something they believe in.
Let me answer this blog…
1. If it didn’t occur to you, all the participants in the parade had to be there early which precludes early services.
2. Also, it is easier to pre-plan 1 parade than 15 or 20 churches to change the day.
3. I suspect that most people who can’t be bothered with church or any other event they find meaningful, don’t view Independence Day with any more significance than a barbecue or a sale at Target so having it on a the 4th or October 10th for that matter is all the same to them.
Happy Independence Day!
Jim, I fear you’ve misread this post terribly, based on the characterizations you’ve made.
I’m glad you enjoyed the parade.
1 & 2. If you’ll notice, early services were never mentioned. The suggestions are to leave church services where they are and move the parade to later in the day (which would satisfy your “it’s easier to move one parade than 20 church services” argument), or to have the parade in the morning and move church services to the afternoon or evening.
3. Evidence of your misread: the point here is that many people DO care about the spirit of the secular holiday of Independence Day, to the degree that they care VERY MUCH that it be specifically ON JULY 4. There are, of course, varying degrees of strength of this conviction, and for various reasons…some no less serious than religious commitment.
My apologies: i see that early services were suggested once, by Deana.
Yes, I did suggest it. (But it wasn’t in the blog.) An early evening parade sounds just fine too…I didn’t go to the parade this year out of principle since it wasn’t the 4th…but I did go to Nordhoff to support our fireworks event. Happy 4th! Having participated in the parade in years past (and my children did too) I know we weren’t there so early as to preclude very early services–but I meant VERY early. And no one should assume the importance or allegiance to anything (including religion or other deeply held personal beliefs) by anyone else. I found that very offensive! The 4th is to be celebrated on the 4th by me because that’s how I like to honor our independence. This includes the extremely important freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I guess this will be shelved again until the 4th happens upon Sunday in the years to come….but you go join the committee Evan!