The Ojai Post

Here is an article from Mother Jones Magazine describing how Exxon
Mobil is funding dozens of think tanks devoted to denying the reality
of manmade global warning:

http://motherjones.com/environment/2005/05/some-it-hot

I suppose it's possible to debate anything. There are still people that debate whether or not the Earth is round or flat, or whether evolution is real.

Here is a review of those 31,000 "scientists" who dispute manmade
global warming -- that list that your friend got from the great authority on climate science, Ron Paul, Republican Congressman from Texas.

http://scentofpine.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/oism31k/

British Admit Copenhagen Agenda, Genocide!

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0912/S00378.htm

Your friend might want to read this book, "Climate Cover-Up, The Crusade to Deny Global Warming," by James Hoggan with Richard Littlemore.

“Climate Cover-Up documents one of the most disgusting stories ever hidden about corporate disinformation. What you’ll discover in this book amounts to proof of an intergenerational crime.”
DAVID SUZUKI, Author of The Sacred Balance and Good News for a Change.

“This book explains how the propaganda generated by self-interest groups has purposely created confusion about climate change. It’s an imperative read for a successful future.”
LEONARDO DICAPRIO, Actor and Producer

“To those of us who have been unknowingly made to turn a blind eye to the terrifying and true facts about global warming, there’s no time left for ignorance. Please read this shocking and incredible book, learn how we’ve been manipulated, get angry and take action.”
NEVE CAMPBELL, Actor and Producer

“A clear and courageous battle cry against those who, for profit’s sake, would lead us to environmental and, ultimately, economic ruin.”
LESTER BROWN, Author of Plan B 3.0: Mobilizing to Save Civilization

“An exposé of planetary scale.”
JAMES E. HANSEN, Director, NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies

I look forward to reading these new links and references when I'm free...

At this point belief in global warming is more like a religion, nevermind the facts, and the revelations that the scientists changed the data, it's more of an ideology. The alarmists are a new type of fascism where the goal is to have their will put upon everyone else. In their world view and the education that they recieved, they were taught false "truths". I call them "the stupid people" because it's impossible to explain to them by building on rational and scientific method. Their world view is more emotional and superstitious than base on science. Nowhere is this more evident than here in Ojai. It a very charming quality actually, especially for tourists.

At this point belief in global warming is more like a religion, nevermind the facts, and the revelations that the scientists changed the data, it's more of an ideology. The alarmists are a new type of fascism where the goal is to have their will put upon everyone else. In their world view and the education that they recieved, they were taught false "truths". I call them "the stupid people" because it's impossible to explain to them by building on rational and scientific method. Their world view is more emotional and superstitious than base on science. Nowhere is this more evident than here in Ojai. It a very charming quality actually, especially for tourists.

There is a desperation to the tone of the alarmists, at this point. Like they can hardly believe the world is not stopping everything to listen as they talk. Check out this story on Al Gore's latest address in Copenhagen. It should make everybody just stop and take a deep breath before speaking out in self-righteous indignation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6956783.ece

Al Gore is the lowest of the scumbag world-rape Spooks ... he was amongst the earliest and most central of the Gold-Price-Fix 9/11 $50 Trillion StockPlay heist producers ... one of the principal financial beneficiaries ... and the, intended, number one political beneficiary ...

With people like Brian, Johnny, and mt contributing to this conversation, who needs Fox news or Rush Limbaugh? Just come to the Ojai Post for a nice cocktail of right wing delusions, with a dash of paranoia for extra flavor.

The link in my previous post was for a story on Al Gore's address to Copenhagen in which he claimed ice in the Arctic Sea would disappear in 5-7 years. Well, it turns out that the source for Gore's assertion does not agree with that possibility. So, Gore looks like an alarmist who doesn't have a handle on the facts.

Here is another article listing 100 reasons global warming is natural. Enjoy! http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/146138

david, your post lumping those who disagree with you and others here alongside Fox and Rush is simply ad hominem. You haven't addressed the charges. If George W. Bush told you your fly was down, would you discount it because you think GWB is a liar?;-)

Has the world increased temperature 1.4F in the past 100 years? Yes. Has the world become cooler in the past 10 years? Yes. Is the "science settled" that global wamring is manmade? No.

Thank you, Johnny Chingas, for taking the time to explain your position. I review all links /sources posted here, as time permits. Today have to take my dad to doctor in SB, but will read link above, later this evening.

So, Johnny, according to the article you linked to, the scientist Gore quoted now says the ice caps will only be 80% gone in 6 years instead of 100% gone in 5 years. Does that make you feel a lot better?

Face it, the science is settled, except for the fine points -- only the politics is not..... no matter how many contrary views you may find in one of Rupert Murdoch's rags.

The amount of CO2 you wackos are freaking out about is FOUR ONE-HUNDRETHS OF ONE PERCENT OF THE FREAKING ATMOSPHERE!

There isn't enough science to overcome a lack of common sense. Hey - if you liberals want to do something about global warming, TAKE PERSONAL ACTION - STOP BREATHING!

Say, Johnny -- maybe you would like to give your friend Deranged a high-school level explanation as to why a small percentage of certain molecules in the atmosphere have a disproportionate effect on global temperatures. (or is that outside your range of expertise too?)

Fail, david.

Hoaxenhagen.

One thing I've noticed is that Al Gore is a complete dunce. Maybe that's why he relates so well to the progressives. He still has refused to debate anyone on global warming, all he does is memorize all the buzz words. But you got to hand it to him he's made billions off the scam. He belongs behind bars picking up soap.

they gave directorship of the UN Security Council to Oblama a few weeks ago, and they tried to give the Presidency of the EU to Tony Blair, and it seems their new 'World Gov't Thingy' will be given to Al Gore ... that is what they are staging in Copenhagen ...

Well, Johnny, I hope you are proud of the company you are keeping here on the Ojai Post.

With friends like these, I would think you would jump the denier's ship in a flash -- but maybe you are comfortable with their quality of mind.

David #20, I speak only for myself, as I find everyone on the Ojai Post does just fine.

You seem quite interested in associating me with Rush and Fox (as if that were an insult) and others. You don't seem to be addressing the content of my posts. Well, the world keeps turning, the world is colder than it was 10 years ago, the world population keeps growing and wants a lifestyle like the U.S., and the fun continues in Copenhagen. Feel free to share a scientific explanation or two (at the junior high school level, of course!) but please don't be surprised if people require proof and facts before they open their wallets. Cheers.

Desmond Tutu, "We Must Complete the Rape of the World"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obxp0i7jguY

MT = wing nut

Johnny,

I do associate you with Rush and Fox News, and that is indeed an insult, of course, and if you don't recognize it as such, well.... enough said.

And I did address the substance of your complaints about Al Gore and climate change in general. The idea that the earth has cooled in the last decade is preposterous. Seven of the hottest years on record are in the last decade.

Cheers to you too.

Brian Cox rocks!

Sorry to disturb the tranquility of anyone who does not like to be bothered by facts, but here is global temperature data since 1900. Please note the red line (five year average).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

Comment #26 That data was compiled by James Hansen, it has no credibility because he changed the raw data.

Can we still all be friends?

Brian,

You are a fountain of false information as well as foul-mouthed slander. Next time you choose to propagate more lies, at least try to provide some evidence or reference to support them. In the meantime, here is where that temperature data is actually from:

"The temperature data for the record come from measurements from land stations and ships. On land, temperature sensors are kept in a Stevenson screen or a maximum minimum temperature system (MMTS). The sea record consists of surface ships taking sea temperature measurements from engine inlets or buckets. The land and marine records can be compared.[6] Land and sea measurement and instrument calibration is the responsibility of national meteorological services. Standardization of methods is organized through the World Meteorological Organization and its predecessor, the International Meteorological Organization.[7]"

#26 and 29 david, Thank you for posting this graph. The data set is through 2009. If you will go to the far right, and look at the last 10 data points (1999-2009), you will see that only one year is warmer than 1999; all the rest are cooler. This contradicts your erroneous assertion in #24.

For the moment, I won't discuss the problems with using Wikipedia or James Hansen from NASA as sources. This is the source you have chosen. You can't have it both ways.

Also, thank you for clarifying your intention to insult; I didn't want to infer your preference for personal attacks compared to factual and reasoned discussion.;-) Cheers again.

#28 Suza, I have always appreciated your tone of civil discourse, your contribution to Ojai's quality of life, and you are a sincerely nice person. Your post #28 wraps all that up in just a few words. Speaking only for myself, the answer to your question is "yes." Thank you.

Hey david (with a small 'd')...

You are no slouch with cut & paste, either. You have the typical elitist attitude that anyone with an opinion adverse to yours is undereducated. Nothing about the AGW issue has been proven, even if you accept the contrived data.

You poor bastards have to start all over on this - from the beginning. Then come talk to me.

Actually, Johnny, no. Read down the page.

The current image is from "03:54, 4 February 2009" with this notation: "update to 2008, change to GISS data"

The peak you are referring to appears to be 1998.

That aside, I'm not wading into this conversation - too busy today. I think the fact that there is a "debate" about this at all is absurd, starting with the assertion that Al Gore, who has championed environmentalism for decades, is a "dunce" who is just in it for the money, and deserves to be sodomized in jail.

Actually, Tyler, no.

The comment you refer to is a perfect example of the problem with using Wikipedia as a "source." If you will click on the data set
link just below the graph, you will find that it goes into 2009. The "comment" is outdated.

That said, it is a difference without a distinction, as this data clearly shows 9 of 10 years are cooler for the data set.

And, that said, I have always appreciated your tone of civil discourse and willingness to allow differing viewpoints (even those you find 'absurd'). Thank you.

Thanks, Johnny

to all my awakening Sister/Brothers, for all my Sacred Relations ..

As to Desmond Tutu, the African Reps, Latin American Reps, and all the other GoreLords and GoreSucks, the only reason they are in Copenhagen, and in the press, is because the GoreLords, the G20, are murdering a couple hundred thousand of their people DAILY ... and they and the GoreLords don't care, because they have been promised billions of dollars from the GoreLord Banksters for going along with this new (Still Secret) World Government they have created, which will be even MORE fascist than the current nationalist, US, EU, UK ones we have experienced to date. That is why THEY (both fake 'left' and fake 'right') are running the WHOLE WORLD'S Media, Emotions, & Institutions full-out to make EVERYONE, every braindead consumer clone or victim, stand up and shout "We want the fascist (non-representative, TOTALLY non-participational, non-parliamental, non-voluntaryist, non-universal) global Bankster Pyramid Government -- and we want THEM to make our decisions for us"! Forever, The End!

Johnny and "Deranged - you not me"

From a statistical standpoint, 1998 is what is called an anomaly -- a single data point so extreme that it does not warrant consideration outside of a wider context. That is why the five year average is more meaningful. The 1998 event is well understood (by climate scientists) as having been caused by an unusually strong El Nino that year, which transfered a lot of heat normally stored in the ocean into the atmosphere. It is not representative or meaningful in isolation, even though it has been used endlessly by people who don't understand statistical trends to argue that it says something that it does not.

Even if you are misled by your lack of understanding of statistical trends into believing that 1998 is somehow definitive, you still have to face the fact that 7 of the last ten years have been the hottest on record. Or, to put it differently, the last decade as a whole is the hottest decade ever recorded. It is only by willful distortion of these facts that you can make the case that the planet has been "cooling" in this decade.

truly, david,

seems most of our fellow serf/slaves cannot read charts or graphs ... thus when we show the graphs of the last few tens or hundreds of thousands of years, or the cycles of the ice ages, some people infer that we are now accelerating rapidly into another ice age ... thinking that a ten- or twenty-thousand year trend slope is the same as a ten or twenty year slope ... or thinking that natural solar or galactic heating and cooling cycles are the same as global industrial ecocide ... obviously they bear no relationship to each other.

more unfortunately, and perversely, the gangster-politically-motivated 90 percent majority of the sheep-clone population insists on believing in the World Aristo-Spook CoIntel Barf that GreenHouse Gases are the cause of the death of 99 percent of the Ocean's Whales and Dolphins, 98 percent of the Worlds Rainforests, 97 percent of the Planet's Forests, 96 percent of Gaia's Rivers and Wetlands, 95 percent of Our Aquafir and Mycosphere (the underground fungal basis of all life) ... when of course it is almost solely the industrial, consumer and war machine ... which the Copenhagen GoreLord agreement will INCREASE ... which is the Monster the victim clones and their deranged masters are knowingly, deliberately, ramping up ...

in it's slimy pestilent disemboweling of our Mother Earth, all our sacred relations ...