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	<title>Comments on: Sooo&#8230; What the f*** happened with the California Budget?</title>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4367</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Give please. An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered. Help me! There is an urgent need for sites: Acai berry research. I found only this - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dispute-resolution.ca/Members/Acaiberry/lose-weight-with-acai-berry&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lose weight with acai berry&lt;/a&gt;. Webmd examines the health benefits of the acai berries, known as a “superfood” because of their many health benefits, anti aging properties, and weight loss. Them I am not authorised to give you that information. :-( Thanks in advance. Kat from Mongolia.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give please. An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered. Help me! There is an urgent need for sites: Acai berry research. I found only this &#8211; <a href="http://www.dispute-resolution.ca/Members/Acaiberry/lose-weight-with-acai-berry" rel="nofollow">lose weight with acai berry</a>. Webmd examines the health benefits of the acai berries, known as a “superfood” because of their many health benefits, anti aging properties, and weight loss. Them I am not authorised to give you that information. <img src='http://www.ojaipost.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks in advance. Kat from Mongolia.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4366</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ll suggest something that would really save money in the prisons = no toilet paper at all. Install bathroom bidet sprayers in all the toilets and all they&#039;ll need is a towel to dry off. It&#039;s cleaner, cheaper (yes for those who just have to object to everything water is cheaper than toilet paper!), it&#039;s better for the environment and it has health benefits like lessening hemorrhoids which would save even more money.  After they try it, like most people, they will like it. As Dr. Oz said on Oprah: &quot;if you had pee or poop on your hand, you wouldn&#039;t wipe it off with paper, would you? You&#039;d wash it off&quot; This is a logical, doable and simple way to save allot of money and actually improve the prisoners living standards. But of course like all new ideas people will find countless silly and inane objections, that is the way of things. Theses sprayers are available at www.bathroomsprayers.com I installed mine myself, easy.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll suggest something that would really save money in the prisons = no toilet paper at all. Install bathroom bidet sprayers in all the toilets and all they&#8217;ll need is a towel to dry off. It&#8217;s cleaner, cheaper (yes for those who just have to object to everything water is cheaper than toilet paper!), it&#8217;s better for the environment and it has health benefits like lessening hemorrhoids which would save even more money.  After they try it, like most people, they will like it. As Dr. Oz said on Oprah: &#8220;if you had pee or poop on your hand, you wouldn&#8217;t wipe it off with paper, would you? You&#8217;d wash it off&#8221; This is a logical, doable and simple way to save allot of money and actually improve the prisoners living standards. But of course like all new ideas people will find countless silly and inane objections, that is the way of things. Theses sprayers are available at <a href="http://www.bathroomsprayers.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.bathroomsprayers.com</a> I installed mine myself, easy.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4365</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4365</guid>
		<description>(PS: I am sure no offense taken, but: &quot;local irrelevant blogger&quot; is only meant as a characterization of what the usual media and Cato-Heritage people would call you, and me, right now.)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(PS: I am sure no offense taken, but: &#8220;local irrelevant blogger&#8221; is only meant as a characterization of what the usual media and Cato-Heritage people would call you, and me, right now.)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4364</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4364</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ll wait to hear more, spk, but your first shot is less than convincing. Arguments that blame our &quot;initiative process&quot;, generically, rather than individual bad initiatives, for the arguable results of individual bad initiatives, are arguments that misplace the blame. Worse, they are used to eliminate or further deform our initiative process in favor of moneyed interests and others who can game the system, and use it to push more of the bad initiatives on us. There are several quotes in your piece which could be used by someone with bad intentions to support the argument that &quot;even noted progressive commentator spk&quot; believes our direct democracy is a bad thing. (Not all tongue in cheek: You might just be a local irrelevant blogger today, but all you need to do is say a few juicy quotes that fit the Cato-Heritage line, and you&#039;ll be a &quot;noted commentator&quot; in no time.)
Its not a reading comprehension issue. Its a precision of language issue. There is a very different political discussion that issues from arguing that our budget woes stem from this, that and the other bad individual initiative which was foisted on the people by particular monied interests- and your statement: &lt;blockquote&gt; He identified California’s direct democracy through the use of the initiative as the primary cause of our governmental morass.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The first leads toward dissection of how moneyed interests have been able to abuse direct democracy and an ignorant or too-harried electorate into passing bad laws; the second argues for eliminating the one tool the people have to hold these interests in check.
Be that as it may, let&#039;s move on to canard number two: Our two-thirds majority requirement is a bad thing, and to blame for our budget mess.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact, I would argue that the 2/3 requirement should apply across more areas - how about any jailable, nonviolent offense? Can you even imagine how much we could save, and how much more robust our economy and tax base would be, if the roughly eighty percent of presently imprisoned people in California who have done nothing threatening or violent to any other human on the planet, could be released and working productively? There is a very good chance we would not be where we are budget-wise, without these draconian and stupid laws.
[An aside: You assert bad initiatives like Prop 187 are responsible for this growth. Yet, what about initiatives like Prop 136? I think if you look at these two initiatives, and the implementation thereof, you will see something interesting. Prop 187 has been fully implemented, funded like crazy, expanded on, and goes unchecked towards its bad ends. Prop 136, on the other hand, has been fought at every level - courts, local governments, state government - limited, truncated and underfunded. Examine this difference, and I think you will begin to discern the real problem in our politics. Again, its not direct democracy.]
The two-thirds requirement makes sense, and your example of our own local Measure P is a good illustration. Here at the local level, our school district faces a budget crunch. Why do they need to hit every property owner in the Ojai Valley for an additional $89 per year, forever? Are you telling me the parents of kids in the Ojai public schools refused to kick down an additional $200, $300 or perhaps more for some of our more wealthy families, so that excellent teacher XX would not have to be laid off, or excellent program XXX could continue? Or, is it possible that the administration was not proposing a budget that the parents of kids in the schools support - forcing the administration to try to foist it on your uninformed public?
What I&#039;m saying is, if $89 a year from a portion of property owners within the school district would plug the gap, assuredly the gap could also easily be plugged by the people closest to the situation ponying up - parents, etc. Foisting a new and permanent tax on people who are not close to the situation, and cannot evaluate whether the money is well spent or not, is a poor solution. The two-thirds majority requirement helps prevent that, however imperfectly.
There are quite a few more points, but I&#039;ll have to leave it here for now. Here&#039;s where I&#039;m headed: The problem, to be fixed, requires a changing of the guard. Term limits doesn&#039;t get you there, because that ends up putting the real power over budget issues in the hands of the lobbyists and legislative hangers-on who have no term limits (and fund these term limits initiatives). What we need, is more, better direct democracy; strong, constant and loud exposure of false ideas, ideologies and policies (such as the failed Republican ideology - turning Republicans into a fringe party, and fostering an intelligent replacement party such as the Greens, would go far to cure our ills); better media (California&#039;s newspapers are atrocious; we need new media; blogs like the Ojai Post could contribute, writ large); and more of a stake for more people in this state, which will translate to a better informed, more participating electorate.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ll wait to hear more, spk, but your first shot is less than convincing. Arguments that blame our &#8220;initiative process&#8221;, generically, rather than individual bad initiatives, for the arguable results of individual bad initiatives, are arguments that misplace the blame. Worse, they are used to eliminate or further deform our initiative process in favor of moneyed interests and others who can game the system, and use it to push more of the bad initiatives on us. There are several quotes in your piece which could be used by someone with bad intentions to support the argument that &#8220;even noted progressive commentator spk&#8221; believes our direct democracy is a bad thing. (Not all tongue in cheek: You might just be a local irrelevant blogger today, but all you need to do is say a few juicy quotes that fit the Cato-Heritage line, and you&#8217;ll be a &#8220;noted commentator&#8221; in no time.)<br />
Its not a reading comprehension issue. Its a precision of language issue. There is a very different political discussion that issues from arguing that our budget woes stem from this, that and the other bad individual initiative which was foisted on the people by particular monied interests- and your statement:<br />
<blockquote> He identified California’s direct democracy through the use of the initiative as the primary cause of our governmental morass.</p></blockquote>
<p>The first leads toward dissection of how moneyed interests have been able to abuse direct democracy and an ignorant or too-harried electorate into passing bad laws; the second argues for eliminating the one tool the people have to hold these interests in check.<br />
Be that as it may, let&#8217;s move on to canard number two: Our two-thirds majority requirement is a bad thing, and to blame for our budget mess.<br />
Wrong, wrong, wrong. In fact, I would argue that the 2/3 requirement should apply across more areas &#8211; how about any jailable, nonviolent offense? Can you even imagine how much we could save, and how much more robust our economy and tax base would be, if the roughly eighty percent of presently imprisoned people in California who have done nothing threatening or violent to any other human on the planet, could be released and working productively? There is a very good chance we would not be where we are budget-wise, without these draconian and stupid laws.<br />
[An aside: You assert bad initiatives like Prop 187 are responsible for this growth. Yet, what about initiatives like Prop 136? I think if you look at these two initiatives, and the implementation thereof, you will see something interesting. Prop 187 has been fully implemented, funded like crazy, expanded on, and goes unchecked towards its bad ends. Prop 136, on the other hand, has been fought at every level - courts, local governments, state government - limited, truncated and underfunded. Examine this difference, and I think you will begin to discern the real problem in our politics. Again, its not direct democracy.]<br />
The two-thirds requirement makes sense, and your example of our own local Measure P is a good illustration. Here at the local level, our school district faces a budget crunch. Why do they need to hit every property owner in the Ojai Valley for an additional $89 per year, forever? Are you telling me the parents of kids in the Ojai public schools refused to kick down an additional $200, $300 or perhaps more for some of our more wealthy families, so that excellent teacher XX would not have to be laid off, or excellent program XXX could continue? Or, is it possible that the administration was not proposing a budget that the parents of kids in the schools support &#8211; forcing the administration to try to foist it on your uninformed public?<br />
What I&#8217;m saying is, if $89 a year from a portion of property owners within the school district would plug the gap, assuredly the gap could also easily be plugged by the people closest to the situation ponying up &#8211; parents, etc. Foisting a new and permanent tax on people who are not close to the situation, and cannot evaluate whether the money is well spent or not, is a poor solution. The two-thirds majority requirement helps prevent that, however imperfectly.<br />
There are quite a few more points, but I&#8217;ll have to leave it here for now. Here&#8217;s where I&#8217;m headed: The problem, to be fixed, requires a changing of the guard. Term limits doesn&#8217;t get you there, because that ends up putting the real power over budget issues in the hands of the lobbyists and legislative hangers-on who have no term limits (and fund these term limits initiatives). What we need, is more, better direct democracy; strong, constant and loud exposure of false ideas, ideologies and policies (such as the failed Republican ideology &#8211; turning Republicans into a fringe party, and fostering an intelligent replacement party such as the Greens, would go far to cure our ills); better media (California&#8217;s newspapers are atrocious; we need new media; blogs like the Ojai Post could contribute, writ large); and more of a stake for more people in this state, which will translate to a better informed, more participating electorate.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4363</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4363</guid>
		<description>spk- you are clearly a political animal.
I believe I am not.
Just curiously have you read Aristotle&#039;s &quot;Politics&quot;?
If so, what is your view of it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spk- you are clearly a political animal.<br />
I believe I am not.<br />
Just curiously have you read Aristotle&#8217;s &#8220;Politics&#8221;?<br />
If so, what is your view of it.</p>
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		<title>By: spk</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4362</link>
		<dc:creator>spk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 23:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4362</guid>
		<description>Well MK, I would agree that many, maybe most, in our electorate are uninformed; however I seriously doubt that &quot;politics&quot; would not exist if everyone &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; informed. Your usage of the word politics seems to imply that you hold a rather negative view. Further, people are uninformed because they choose to remain ignorant. Or rather, theirs is a sin of omission. I don&#039;t hold the elitist view that people are stupid or that there are classes of people that are less intelligent than others and therefore incapable of discharging their duties as citizens, namely becoming informed and participating. What I see is a whole society that is encouraged to remain divided, uninvolved and atomized because this is the state most conducive to corporate consumerism.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well MK, I would agree that many, maybe most, in our electorate are uninformed; however I seriously doubt that &#8220;politics&#8221; would not exist if everyone <i>were</i> informed. Your usage of the word politics seems to imply that you hold a rather negative view. Further, people are uninformed because they choose to remain ignorant. Or rather, theirs is a sin of omission. I don&#8217;t hold the elitist view that people are stupid or that there are classes of people that are less intelligent than others and therefore incapable of discharging their duties as citizens, namely becoming informed and participating. What I see is a whole society that is encouraged to remain divided, uninvolved and atomized because this is the state most conducive to corporate consumerism.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4361</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4361</guid>
		<description>spk- we DON&#039;T have an informed electorate.
That&#039;s why we have politics.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>spk- we DON&#8217;T have an informed electorate.<br />
That&#8217;s why we have politics.</p>
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		<title>By: spk</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4360</link>
		<dc:creator>spk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4360</guid>
		<description>Several mischaracterizations, failures of reading comprehension, digressions and misunderstandings of the historical record in your comment Anon. #5.
Nowhere in my article did I advocate eliminating our direct democracy or initiative process. Perhaps I didn&#039;t spell it out clearly enough, but Prof. Frisch did not advocate its elimination either. However, his analysis that our direct democracy &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; responsible for many of the &quot;broken&quot; parts of our budgeting process is right on. This does not mean that it should be thrown out completely. It simply means that the citizens of California often behave like impressionable sheep. Herded by any Tom, Dick, Darrell Issa, Mormon Church, Howard Jarvis or any other well funded special interest seeking to stoke hatred or stupidity. Direct Democracy is incredibly powerful medicine and it requires an informed electorate. I&#039;m not certain we really qualify as informed these days.
There is a lot more in your comment that I wish to address, like your total misread of prop 13, but I don&#039;t have time right now. In the immortal words of our steroid-addled governator, who once met with Ken Lay of Enron fame during the &quot;energy crisis&quot; brought on by that company before he &quot;decided&quot; to run for Governor and recall Davis: I&#039;ll Be Back.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several mischaracterizations, failures of reading comprehension, digressions and misunderstandings of the historical record in your comment Anon. #5.<br />
Nowhere in my article did I advocate eliminating our direct democracy or initiative process. Perhaps I didn&#8217;t spell it out clearly enough, but Prof. Frisch did not advocate its elimination either. However, his analysis that our direct democracy <i>is</i> responsible for many of the &#8220;broken&#8221; parts of our budgeting process is right on. This does not mean that it should be thrown out completely. It simply means that the citizens of California often behave like impressionable sheep. Herded by any Tom, Dick, Darrell Issa, Mormon Church, Howard Jarvis or any other well funded special interest seeking to stoke hatred or stupidity. Direct Democracy is incredibly powerful medicine and it requires an informed electorate. I&#8217;m not certain we really qualify as informed these days.<br />
There is a lot more in your comment that I wish to address, like your total misread of prop 13, but I don&#8217;t have time right now. In the immortal words of our steroid-addled governator, who once met with Ken Lay of Enron fame during the &#8220;energy crisis&#8221; brought on by that company before he &#8220;decided&#8221; to run for Governor and recall Davis: I&#8217;ll Be Back.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4359</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4359</guid>
		<description>Good stuff spk.
As always, beware the experts, however.
Bad individual initiatives are not the fault of direct democracy - getting rid of the initiative will not fix our problems, but worsen them. Beware analyses that lead down this path.
Here in Ojai, our city council recently spent $100,000 making the initiative process less democratic, and more the tool of moneyed interests. If you examined the &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot; initiatives over the years, I think you would find that if we retooled the initiative process - or simply reversed the present trend - to essentially apply only to grassroots efforts, and banned, for example, paid signature gatherers and the now legal and semi-legal mechanisms by which moneyed interested push and block initiatives, you would have better results.
Be that as it may, let&#039;s also not indulge some canards. For example, that Prop 13 is a bad thing.
The good professor apparently criticizes Prop 13 because, in time when people&#039;s incomes are down, the ability to increase property taxes independent of incomes would give the state a steadier income.
That, my friend, is exactly why Prop 13 passed. There you are, living in your home. A bunch of Repugnicans get in and tank the economy (as they always do), and you are struggling to make ends meet. Your local government kicks you when you are down, by raising your property tax. You pay, or lose your home.
No wonder there was a revolt.
As a progressive, I am surprised you would favor the idea that taxes should not be tied to income. That&#039;s something for the Cato Institute.
Prop 13, of course, was the epitomy of a successful grassroots effort.
&quot;Three-strikes&quot; and much of the other prison agenda have been just the opposite. And you are right, those are terrible initiatives.
Logging off for now, perhaps more later...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff spk.<br />
As always, beware the experts, however.<br />
Bad individual initiatives are not the fault of direct democracy &#8211; getting rid of the initiative will not fix our problems, but worsen them. Beware analyses that lead down this path.<br />
Here in Ojai, our city council recently spent $100,000 making the initiative process less democratic, and more the tool of moneyed interests. If you examined the &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;bad&#8221; initiatives over the years, I think you would find that if we retooled the initiative process &#8211; or simply reversed the present trend &#8211; to essentially apply only to grassroots efforts, and banned, for example, paid signature gatherers and the now legal and semi-legal mechanisms by which moneyed interested push and block initiatives, you would have better results.<br />
Be that as it may, let&#8217;s also not indulge some canards. For example, that Prop 13 is a bad thing.<br />
The good professor apparently criticizes Prop 13 because, in time when people&#8217;s incomes are down, the ability to increase property taxes independent of incomes would give the state a steadier income.<br />
That, my friend, is exactly why Prop 13 passed. There you are, living in your home. A bunch of Repugnicans get in and tank the economy (as they always do), and you are struggling to make ends meet. Your local government kicks you when you are down, by raising your property tax. You pay, or lose your home.<br />
No wonder there was a revolt.<br />
As a progressive, I am surprised you would favor the idea that taxes should not be tied to income. That&#8217;s something for the Cato Institute.<br />
Prop 13, of course, was the epitomy of a successful grassroots effort.<br />
&#8220;Three-strikes&#8221; and much of the other prison agenda have been just the opposite. And you are right, those are terrible initiatives.<br />
Logging off for now, perhaps more later&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/comment-page-1/#comment-4358</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 15:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ojaipost.com/2009/03/sooo-what-the-f-happened-with-the-california-budget/#comment-4358</guid>
		<description>Great info Sean. Thanks.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great info Sean. Thanks.</p>
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