The Ojai Post

Wow, evan, this has been one of my questions, which I posed to a pastor recently on these very pages. Such hypocrisy. My husband and I have been married for almost 18 years. We chose not to have children, but make no mistake, we are a family. First they will define who can BE married, then they will define who can STAY married. bullshit is right.

you have indeed, Lisa...i thought about you when i wrote that point, and as i recall nobody has ever responded to you in a satisfactory way!

i just inadvertently stumbled upon Washington State's "Initiative 957", which, according to Randy Stapilus of Ridenbaugh Press,

"would limit marriage only to male-female couples who are capable of having children with one another," specifically barring marriage - in case anyone missed the point - "when the parties are unable to have children together for any reason."

(for clarity, the initiative was proposed in 2007 as "political street theater", with the intention to generate critical conversations and expose the hypocrisy and sub-rational thinking behind same-sex marriage bans. the initiative gathered only 40,000 signatures - too few to qualify for the ballot - and was withdrawn in July of last year)

Children are great for keeping you young and making you look old. You can always spot the childless couple in the room. They look well-rested.

Thanks, #4, I got a chuckle! Show us photos of your kids, and we'll show you photos of our vacations!

It's disturbing that 40,000 people signed that initiative...

the campaign was pretty "out" (if you'll excuse the reference/pun) with the fact that it was political street theater...i'm imagining that most of those folks knew that's what they were supporting. at least, i hope...

If everybody was gay then we could all reduce our carbon footprint !

Good news in FL:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081125/ap_on_re_us/gay_adoptions

h/t:

http://blog.scottpatrickwagner.com/

from Maureen Dowd on "gay" marriage >

“I think people are beginning to look at it differently, I know it’s happened for me,” Feinstein said of gay marriage. “I started out not supporting it. The longer I’ve lived, the more I’ve seen the happiness of people, the stability that these commitments bring to a life. Many adopted children who would have ended up in foster care now have good solid homes and are brought up learning the difference between right and wrong. It’s a very positive thing.”

for the whole column (11/23/08) go here >

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/opinion/23dowd.html

and there you have it !!!

important clarification >>> my comment above (#10) is a quote from Senator Dianne Feinstein which appeared in Maureen Dowd's column on 11/23/08 >>>

meanwhile, how about a few more words of wisdom from Maureen (link posted below) >>>

President Bush was a divider, not a decider. And the city and the country followed his bunker mentality. After 9/11, the White House and Capitol were ever more blockaded, and there seemed to be fewer and fewer bridges across any of our divisions — racial, political, social and cultural.

But now we have the delicious irony that a white president from a patrician family, whose administration was so negligent about America’s poor and black citizens, was so incompetent that he helped elect the first black president.

As Andrew Young told Stephen Colbert, “The world got so messed up nobody else wanted to really tackle it so then they turned it over to us.”

And we have images to share that are harmonizing, not polarizing — black and white students cheering and celebrating in front of the White House and the warm and fuzzy obsession about what kind of hypoallergenic puppy Sasha and Malia will get.

It’s cool that President-elect Cool has gotten everybody chatting, even if it’s awkward small talk. And it’s fun, after so many years of unyielding barriers, to feel sentimental.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/opinion/09dowd.html

Thank you, Evan!

Great post and great point.

Guess my husband of almost 14 years and I are living in sin sans children.

(Human ones, at least -- how do these folks feel about feline, canine, and equine children? That ought to get the inter-species hysteria rolling!)

What nonsense!

Best,
Leigh

I don't know about those folks, Leigh, but I'd' marry my cats any day! HA! Critters are devoted, committed "till death do us part" AND you don't have to send 'em to college!

Evan, thanks for being such a wonderful married man and really thinking about what it means. I seldom see you curse or CAPS on post, AND it gladens me that you do so about this subject.

Gay marriage is only, in their eyes, one of the MOST not normal of all the alternatives to monogamous hetero breederdom. In their eyes, only sexual reproduction and blood (sharing genes), make a "family." Some are among those who adopt too many children and then inadvertently treat them like outsiders. "Look! Look! See what GOOD I'm doing!" The fear of the one god--sin/judgement/hell--and the resulting patriarchial power MANipulations that have dominated American society and culture since the Bill of Rights was written (tip 'o the hat to MT!)has, yet again, brought up a question of who (taxpayers) gets to do what (state recognition and taxbreaks) with whom (other taxpayers) in this country. Yet, some people still want to build master races and use god as an excuse--and THAT is a "tradition" which I don't care to ever see in this country. When religion(s) in the guise of morality controls what the state recognizes as "family," tyranny is but an inch away. Most of the "founding fathers" were monotheists; however, they had the foresight (and gumption) to list freedom from religious tryanny in the same declaration as equality under the law. An awfully grand experiment that we must continue to strive to make successful.

Those who talk about marriage as "a tradition" are myopic and historically ignorant. There have been many forms of marriage throughout humankind that have been condoned and recognized by societies that have very successfully advanced their tribe/state/nation/empire. Futhermore, HETEROSEXUALITY IS NOT A TRADITION! PERIOD! If this country can stay together (and that's a big IF), the family laws WILL change (as have most of the progressive nations in Europe)--all we have is 4.7%(>.1%)to go in the most populous state in the union. Hopefully, they will realize that Massachusetts and Connecticut will not disintegrate in the next 4 years, or even 2 years (!) as Dianne Feinstein has so graciously iterated: “I started out not supporting it. The longer I’ve lived, the more I’ve seen the happiness of people, the stability that these commitments bring to a life. Many adopted children who would have ended up in foster care now have good solid homes and are brought up learning the difference between right and wrong. It’s a very positive thing.” (Thanks, Vickie)

I am grateful to be living in one of the only towns in Ventura County whose voters opposed eliminating ANYONE'S right. (Have you ever checked the vitriol on the VCStar comments? Sheesh, and I work there!)

Thank you Ojai! We have much to be thankful for in this sacred valley.

thank you, all!

i hear crickets from the "YES" side, no matter where i turn. it might be easy to think they have no comeback, no counter-intelligence...but i think the truth is far more frightening: i think they DO have a response, and they're wise to not share it cuz it'd scare the bejeezus right INTO all of us!

judy, i'm so grateful for you! thanks for the reminder that the Ojai Valley voted 2/3's AGAINST discrimination. two out of every three people you meet or pass are your friends!

Jeez Evan do we shoot the the other 1/3? You will let us know...

I saw a van on the freeway in Vta with a big

"MIND YOUR OWN MARRIAGE"

sign. I thought it was great! Not so great is when someone in Westridge Market parking lot tore off my "No on 8" bumper sticker.

So surprised and sad to know that one of my Ojai neighbors is a vandal and a coward.

Don't miss the current (Dec.15) issue of Newsweek.
COVER STORY: GAY MARRIAGE, "The Religious Case for Gay Marriage."
I'm giving copies to friends and family members who voted yes on 8.

Here is the link:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/172653

"Opponents of gay marriage often cite Scripture. But what the Bible teaches about love argues for the other side..."

Thanks to Suza's last comment which was noted on the front page, I "discovered" this thread.

I've been traveling in the Midwest, now a winter wonderland.

I see the real conversation is happening in another valley. Valley Junction is the nearest handful of people to me now.

I've been discussing the subject of this thread at "loverearth aeonity blog."

I won't go into my views since they are so far out and receive an X rating in the sexual cultland we currently inhabit.

I think I'll play a bit in the snow with the children today and avoid the cultural snowjob for a little longer.

Much love from the heartland to the coastland outpost. Oh yes, I also posted a note about you all at La Ojai Valley Epost blogstream.

It's not so bad to be marginalized when the margin is centerpage. Ask Jock the Rock.

Great post, Suza. Also, tomorrow is Day Without a Gay. Don't forget to call in gay!

http://blog.scottpatrickwagner.com/2008/11/will-you-be-calling-in/