Fannie and Freddie last week, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch going down, AIG and Washington Mutual next?
This economy is a disaster, and American citizens are left holding the bill as the government continues to bail out these giant companies at taxpayer expense. Now that’s a welfare state. When do we hit rock bottom? How much blame does the Bush administration shoulder?
Economic Woes
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{ 31 comments }
brian is very wise not to allow comments underneath his repulsive recipes.
the concept of honey garlic moose balls makes me want to swear off honey forever.
may all brian’s bees take their revenge on him tonight.
as for the economic meltdown: the media like to attribute it to the housing bubble, but i would like to see some attention given to the connection with the war in iraq.
is it coincidence that everything Lit’l George touches turns to lead? The slow motion collapse of the USA cannot be blamed on any one man. Shrub has done quite well as a scape goat providing the necessary illusions the naive American requires to go about their daily tedium. The economic meltdown has been inevitable and is a consequence of our economic system being grounded in debt, weapons, prison and corruption. The political puppets belong to Saudia Arabia and China. They will be our landlords sooner than we think…
Just in case anyone has not fully understood the Bushpublican Newspeak, “privatization” and the “free market” mean: Privatized profits, socialized losses.
Collapse is the only possible consequence of that ideology.
Consider one example of the vicious circle:
1. Bank lends to taxpayer. Bank sells loan to “market” (i.e. foreign governments). Fannie and Freddy guarantee loan.
2. Taxpayer defaults because he cannot pay loan. Investors (i.e. foreign governments) look to Fannie and Freddie to make good on guarantee. Fannie and Freddy look to government. Government looks to … yep … taxpayer.
Tyler, you ask who is to blame, and I think the answer is clear: Bush and Cheney and their corrupt ideology. Small minds will differ, and say, oh, Greenspan did this, Clinton did that … but without Bush/Cheney, the reality is that we would not have the crisis we have today. They thus bear the fault. Whether they are merely the straw that broke the camel’s back, the raging bull in the china shop, or the nuclear bomb that was dropped on the otherwise thriving scene, doesn’t really much matter. Bush/Cheney and their failures are the horrendous, essential causal link to what we are facing now.
Honey-Garlic Baked Brian
Ingredients
¼ cup minced garlic
¼ cup soy sauce
½ cup honey
2 tablespoons garlic powder
3 tablespoons onion powder
1 ½ teaspoons chili powder (optional)
3 pounds of ground Brian
2 tablespoons canola oil
The BLAME Game
(sung to the tune of “The NAME Game” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_Game
Fannie Fannie Bo-Fannie
Banana-nana Fo Fannie
Fe-Fi-Fo Fannie
The BLAME Game…
Metaphorically speaking, when the devil offers you an apple and you know that it’s the devil who’s making the offer and you accept the apple anyway, then both the giver and the receiver are to blame.
The receiver usually has the option of keeping their power intact and unsullied, but frequently chooses not to use that option, and decides instead to believe in magic and magical thinking.
Post seven got it so right. Yes we can place blame on those mentioned above most correctly but, to not hold accountable those(democrats) who did not fight back and hold bush back but, caved in on practically every demand he made, are just as guilty in my book. I can’t stand the republicans at all but, they are not afraid to fight and don’t roll over like the democrats have done over and over again.
I got it so wrong I, meant post 6.
uh dana, i don’t think #6 was talking about democrats.
i think he’s talking about poor schlub Joe Homeowner who bough his lakefront dream home while working at McDonald’s and listened to Cramer and bought stock on margin.
Hopefully none of our readers fall into those categories.
i think he’s talking about poor schlub Joe Homeowner…
That is who I was talking about, but Dana made a good corollary point, too. Too many people from both sides of the aisle went along with the devil, and they’re still going along. Those people don’t need to be attacked, however. (That’s just a dead end and it stalls us in an unproductive place.) What they need is to be completely side-stepped. However, the more people walk away from their game the angrier they’re going to get. (That’s how you can tell it’s a game, actually.)
Opt out before someone buys the opt out movement, knocks out its teeth, beats you senseless with the words “opt out”, and turns it into a TV show and a fragrance at Target.
I like what you are saying, #10. Do you think you could be more explicit. Some readers might find ‘opt out’ a bit vague.
Thanks post 9. Though Tyler’s writing was on the economy, in my mind I can’t, separate our economic problems from our political leaders’ actions hense, my seeing the parallel-the political with the behaviour of joe homeowner/banker. I should have been more observant and explanative. Post 10 was generous and accurate in what I was doing.
As a longtime advocate of the idea that tune in, turn on, drop out is the right solution (that’s what you’re saying, right #10?), I don’t want to digress this thread just when the most progressive and viable solution to our woes is being discussed.
But, here’s a link that’s worth reading – excerpts from Cynthia McKinnon’s acceptance speech as 2008 Green Party Presidential nominee:
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/viewArticle/18711
I just thought it notable for how different it is than the palabum we are hearing from the two “major” parties.
Is there any way we can turn the discourse to a contest between the Greens and the Democrats? I believe McKinney is right, Green values are the values of a majority in this country. Since the Repugnicans have so completely disqualified themselves as a responsible party, why is the national debate stopped up with reporting of their non-ideas?
a group (of those who frequent Libby Park?) is getting together there Sunday, the 21st, 10am, to form a valley-wide local-economy Coop. cash, kind, food, labor, skills, services etc. being the proposed medium of exchange … as we seemingly enter the new Millennium/Age as a cashless (bank-less and corporate-less?) community-based ‘fiscality’ …
Some readers might find ‘opt out’ a bit vague.
Alright, then. There will be no magical truths forthcoming, but here goes:
Remember when, about a day or so after 9/11/2001, Bush told us all to go out and keep spending money? Had you said to yourself, “WTF, George?!!” and not continued to spend money simply to keep the game in play even if you were spending money you really didn’t have, you would have begun the process of opting out 7 years ago, assuming that you hadn’t already begun the process on your own some time before that.
Another example: did you ever move into a new place and have nothing more than a bed, some music, a coffee pot, a few clothes, some books, a stove, a refrigerator, a place setting for one or two, and a bathroom to call your own? Did that feel nice? When it finally came time to move from that place and you had to deal with years worth of collected crap, what did that feel like?
Opting out is not a new idea, and I sure as hell didn’t invent it. It’s just an idea that we keep forgetting about. You can’t turn it into an organized movement, or the people who stand to lose the most money will destroy that movement in any way they can. You just have to decide whether or not you can believe in it, and if you do, do it on your own, quietly.
Millennium – can you, or Darakshan, or someone else, send me details on the project? I’ll post it on OjaiEvents.com. I’d like to hear more, as I have had some casual discussions about this in Ojai over the last year or so.
Friends and countrypersons,
In 1913, a collection of private banks — called, for some reason, the “Federal Reserve” — took over the issuance of U.S. currency.
This meant that the U.S. government had to pay back AT INTEREST every dollar printed. And this meant certain ruin for our country.
The so-called “Federal Reserve Act” (better named the Private Banking Act) was signed into law by a duped Woodrow Wilson, who later said, regretfully:
“I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. . . . The growth of the nation . . . and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world, no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
If you don’t believe Woodrow, here’s Congressman Louis T. McFadden, former Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency:
“We have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks. . . . Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. But they are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves . . . There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the International Bankers. . . . When the Federal Reserve Act was passed, the people of these United States did not perceive that a world banking system was being set up here. . . . Every effort has been made by the Fed to conceal its powers but the truth is — the Fed has usurped the government.”
The dollar you have in your wallet today is worth 4 cents.
The dollar your grandparent had in his or her wallet in 1913 was worth one dollar.
Bush and Cheney have had nothing to do with the dollar’s decline. They were, however, responsible, along with the Zionists (a political group), for the horrific events of 9/11.
All of the above statements are documented and beyond dispute, but for some reason they are unknown to the majority of Ojai Post readers. Please do not respond to the statements above without doing significant research.
To begin researching 9/11 and the current worldwide economic crisis, please consider starting with the short videos and articles at:
http://www.SpontaneousCreation.org/SC/links.htm
Please note further that those who disagree with the claims above generally:
a) do not use names but go by “Anonymous” or some other anonymous tag;
b) do not back up their claims with facts, but simply assert positions.
If you have something to say to me personally (i.e., off-topic), please write me at:
director@spontaneouscreation.org
Please do not waste O.P. readers’ time with defamation, slander, or other types of character assassination.
If however you have something researched to say about Tyler’s post on the U.S. economy, now’s the time.
In the spirit of truth,
Jock Doubleday
Director
Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
A California 501(c)3 nonprofit corporation
director@spontaneouscreation.org
http://www.SpontaneousCreation.org
From here it looks like the Republican strategists (Rove, Cheney, etc.) have been trying hard to lose the 08 election so a Republican will not be in the White House during the complete economic collapse. They chose a man they despise as candidate, but now, in an irony reminiscent of The Producers, the candidate is accidentally gathering a huge following of religious fundamentalists as economically and technologically ignorant as himself. Aside from the likely suffering to come, it’s really pretty comical.
BTW, what’s the difference between the governance philosophy of the Republican VP candidate and the mullahs of Iran? Lipstick.
Jock,
You are one sick anti-Semitic puppy who must be called out on your hate filled speech.
Though there is much wrong in the world, your view through the wrong end of a prism is distorted and evil. There is nothing “natural” in your approach. It is simply just hatred dressed up as some wing nut conspiracy theory that the Nazi’s would have honored you for.
Your blatant lies must be called out and your so-called sources of truth are just garbage piled on top of garbage on top of garbage. You can quote them until doomsday but that does not make them the truth nor does feeling repulsed by your disgusting low brow call to hatred diminish those who stand up against your insanity.
Get thee to an asylum – and quick. You are one evil cretin
who abuses the notion of free speech in a democracy.
I for one will not play your game of engaging in debate with a lunatic.
jbs
aye, true, Jock,
not ‘to blame’, but ‘responsible for’ conceiving, organizing, orchestrating, and profiting from the 911 Stock Play …
including Bill Clinton and Al Gore, the originators … and the 13 Families, European Royalty … the Rothschild organization … and the Rockefeller (JP Morgan) organization …
the perversity is universal, all ‘parties’ involved and ‘accommodating’ the fiscal domination, Mother Earth rape, game.
‘now’, fortunately, responsibility has matured, quickened, planetwide …
global consciousness, the Adi Shakti, Maitreyah, Maadi, Maschiak, Messiah …
and the gangster machine will be controlled and dismantled, and a global economy of equality, honoring the woman and elders, will begin to equalize the consumption of resources, and bring us all together to mend our ways …
and reforest Mother Earth,
return Her pristine, industry-free, oceans,
return Her sacred atmosphere, breath of life!
with and for all our sacred relations,
Millennium Twain
I’m with you JSB.
It’s unfortunate that our wonderful ringleader- Tyler, gives Jock a free hand to write and promote this drivel.
C’mon Tyler- muzzle this jerk.
And while you’re at it how about creating a special area where those who “grok” Milleniumspeak” can out-esotericize each other.
Dear Jock,
You have on two or three occasions posted here on the Ojai Post articles purporting to uphold conspiracy theories regarding 9/11. In each case, with just a little research, I was able to show, and did show here on the Post, that your articles were full of blatant holes and outright falsehoods.
Evidently you are not capable of learning from your own errors even when they are exposed for all the world to see. For you now to include the Zionists in with your conspiracy theory only confirms the deeply distorted nature of your outlook.
I can understand why Tyler allows you to submit your comments here, because this is a free speech forum. But it is a little hard to understand why he accepts you as an Ojai Post Author, which confers some legitimacy upon you and your views.
Tuesday September 16, 05:05 AM
Markets Tumble On Tense Tuesday
Shares have tumbled in Japan and Hong Kong this morning as the fallout from the collapse of the leading American investment bank Lehman Brothers continues.
Tokyo financial markets were down 4.7% in early trading while Hong Kong share prices plunged 6.1%.
Both the Japanese and Hong Kong’s markets were closed yesterday when the collapse of the financial institution sent shockwaves around the globe.
This dire start for the eastern markets was initiated by Monday’s meltdown on Wall Street – its worst day for seven years, the Dow Jones closing last night down 504 points, a fall of almost four and a half per cent.
The FTSE saw almost 4% wiped off its value, closing more than 200 points down.
That prompted the Bank of England to pump an extra £5bn into panicked money markets.
The European Central Bank added a further £25bn in a bid to calm traders.
All eyes will be on the FTSE and European markets this morning as financiers brace themselves for the next possible collapse.
The world’s largest insurance company, AIG, is the latest firm to come under pressure.
The firm, whose shares nearly halved last week, is taking steps to raise money amid reports it is seeking a $40bn emergency loan from the Fed.
The collapse of Lehman sent stock markets into freefall and left thousands of workers facing the axe.
Lehman, which has lost billions in the credit crunch, filed for bankruptcy after weekend rescue efforts foundered when the US Government refused to help it.
The future of around 4,500 UK staff looks bleak – PriceWaterhouseCoopers (PwC) was called in as administrators of four UK subsidiaries.
Lehman now joins nationalised Northern Rock and US rival Bear Stearns – which hit trouble in March – on the casualty list following a year of turmoil.
Fellow US investment bank Merrill Lynch – another victim of heavy losses linked to the US housing market – was also bought by Bank of America in a deal worth $50bn (£28bn).
Lehman, which has 25,000 staff worldwide, has racked up huge losses following the credit crunch.
Last week, it posted a third quarter loss of £2.2bn with a £3.9bn hit from sliding commercial property and sub-prime mortgage investments – sending its shares plummeting more than 90%.
But unlike recent rescues for US mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – as well as Bear Stearns in March – the US Treasury refused to prop up the ailing bank. Barclays considered a bid for Lehman but walked away on Sunday.
Lehman’s collapse led Wall Street to its worst points fall since the derivatives crash of 9/11.
The benchmark Dow Jones index slid 504.5 points, or 4.4%, as investors reacted badly to the meltdown of Lehman and Merrill Lynch.
London’s major banking stocks took a stock market pounding, with Halifax Bank of Scotland down more than a third at one point before closing 18% down.
Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays fell 12% and 10% respectively after recovering from heavier falls earlier.
Funny how the result of these shocks is not the disintegration of these financial institutions, but their further consolidation, aided (with the apparent exception of Lehman Bros., a former competitor and possibly the receptacle of bad blood from former Goldman Sachs co-chairman Paulson, now Secretary of Treasury) by the taxpayer.
Bear Sterns goes to JP Morgan. Merrill Lynch goes to BofA. Lehman sells choice assets to Barclays. Etc.
Hard to make sense of where this is going. Is it Naomi Klein’s “shock doctrine” writ large, the final push for rapine by fat cats who are seeing themselves being pushed from popular power by democratic change around the world, and possible even here in the U.S. (if Obama turns out to be more progressive than some are counting on)?
Or is it a true crisis, the chickens coming home to roost after thirty years of doomed policies, of shock after shock?
The FDIC itself says it is at risk of being undercapitalized, and a respected NYU economics professor says in blunt terms that Congress will have to recapitalize the FDIC:
http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=658688&pageNum=2062_3100_1
In Main Street language, when Wall Street is talking in plain terms about the need to “recapitalize” the FDIC, that would seem to presage an expectation of significant bank failures coming. What does the potential strain on the FDIC mean for uninsured bonds and money market funds?
Oil is now falling like a stone, although domestically, the price of gasoline is rising and expected to rise further. (Go figure.)
The dollar is falling further against every major currency except the Canadian looney.
“Hyperinflation” looks like a best-case scenario, although since it looks like it will be unaccompanied by wage inflation, calling it hyperinflation is really a misnomer. Still, to the boomers whose retirement funds will be worth pennies on the dollar in purchasing power, it will seem real enough. (For the rest of us, the difference will be meaningfuI. Unlike true inflation, devaluation of the dollar without an accompanying rise in wages results in simple impoverishment, similar to what has repeatedly struck third world countries afflicted by rising prices, too much debt, dependence on foreign imports for basics such as energy, manufactured goods, and the like. Is America ready for that?)
On the bright side, homes in Ojai are now selling at under $300,000 again, and mortgage rates (if anyone can get one) look to be headed back to historic lows. If decent homes drop into the low twos and mortgage rates stay low, absent other factors we might be approaching the possibility that people can live and work in Ojai again. Perhaps we can hunker down here in Ojai and buy ourselves another twenty or thirty years of the good life. Any suggestions on how to make that happen?
Seems to me it is now time to do whatever it takes to ensure that you earn more than you spend, shed what you don’t need, and minimize obligations that are not fixed at rates that are eminently manageable.
(That is, time to give in to common sense, however unsatisfying that may be.)
Some people, fewer and fewer all the time, are making a bundle off of all this grief, and all of the little hucksters are busy trying to figure out how to hop onto the gravy train, if only for a fleeting taste.
Until that stops, this is all going to keep getting worse. Therefore, this is all just going to keep getting worse.
The crisis comes down to this: These giant institutions, which usually have ready access to credit in order to meet current obligations, have been shut off. So, despite having assets that nominally are worth more than their obligations, they have been unable to find anyone willing to lend them money to meet today’s obligations. Why? Because sophisticated market players with access to the books do not believe the assets these institutions are holding are worth the value they are booked at.
These institutions want the taxpayer to step up, on the theory that the assets they hold are worth what they say and will be repaid in due course, and therefore tiding them over on current payments is only of limited risk.
The problem? It is today’s taxpayer, in his/her role as a consumer who has borrowed, whose inability to pay is causing the credit crunch in the first place. Ultimately, looking to today’s taxpayer to guarantee these institutions’ defaulted assets is a mirage – it will take new taxpayers to make up this shortfall, if the taxpayers are to be held responsible at all.
Systemic change will be required to fix this.
In the meantime, if these institutions truly fail, what that means is that they are not going to repay their current obligations. That will ripple through every financial instrument, from money market funds to bank deposits. Combined with falling real estate, collapsing dollar internationally, state, federal and local deficit spending (on falling tax revenues – if you think the Lehman, etc. situation looks bad, look at the government) and swooning stock markets, there really is a danger of systemic collapse.
What is happening right now is that instead of failing, other, larger institutions are snapping up the troubled players at bargain basement prices, without the usual regulatory oversight that would accompany mergers of this scale. So, for example, BofA, the country’s largest bank, now has Countrywide and Merrill Lynch. Does BofA have the heft to make good on both its own obligations and those of these two acquisitions? If not, we’ve merely delayed paying the piper once more. (While, as the previous post points out, fewer and fewer individuals make another bundle.)
Where are you putting your savings today?
Currencies
Yen Touches Two-Year High Against Euro on Downgrade of Insurer AIG’s Debt The yen touched a two-year high against the euro as the debt-rating downgrade of American International Group Inc. fueled concern credit markets are seizing up after the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.
Brazil’s Real Declines to 10-Month Low as Investors Shed High-Yield Assets Brazil’s real sank to a 10-month low as speculation New York-based American International Group Inc. will fail damped demand for higher-yielding assets.
Americas
Dollar May Fall as Low as 101.45 Yen on Fibonacci Chart, BNP Paribas Says The dollar may fall to 101.45 yen after it dropped below so-called support at 104.95 yen, according to Andrew Chaveriat, a technical analyst at BNP Paribas SA in New York.
Dollar Volatility Rises to Six-Month High to Yen After Lehman, Merrill Volatility implied by dollar-yen options expiring in one month rose to the highest in six months after Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. filed for bankruptcy and Bank of America Corp. agreed to acquire Merrill Lynch & Co.
Canadian Dollar Falls as Investors Abandon Risk, Commodities Such as Oil The Canadian dollar fell for a second day as investors sold commodities including crude oil and gold as part of a move toward less risky assets.
Europe
British Pound Declines Against Dollar, Euro on Outlook for Inflation The U.K. pound fell by the most in two weeks against the dollar after Bank of England Governor Mervyn King said inflation will peak ’soon’ and then slow ’sharply’ in 2009, boosting speculation of an interest-rate cut.
South African Rand Slides After AIG Credit Downgrades, Global Equity Drop South Africa’s rand dropped for a second day against the dollar after American International Group Inc.’s debt ratings were downgraded and equity markets slid worldwide, prompting investors to pare holdings of higher- yielding assets.
Standard Chartered Closes Bet to Sell Euro on `Extreme’ Market Conditions Standard Chartered Plc, the U.K. bank that gets most of its profit from Asia, closed its recommendation to sell the euro against Australia’s dollar, given the “current extreme conditions” in the global markets.
Asia
Korean Won Declines Most Since 1998 as Stocks Slump on Credit Woes, Lehman South Korea’s won fell the most since August 1998 as global investors accelerated sales of Asian equities in the wake of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankruptcy filing.
New Zealand, Australian Dollars Slide Against Yen After U.S. Stocks Tumble The New Zealand dollar dropped to the weakest in more than four years against the yen and Australia’s slid to a 2 1/2-year low as a global stocks rout curbed demand for the nations’ higher-yielding assets.
Asian Currencies: Korean Won, Indian Rupee Slide as Investors Shun Risk South Korea’s won fell by the most since August 1998 as global investors accelerated sales of Asian equities in the wake of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankruptcy filing. The Indian rupee weakened.
So I havent seen anything posted on OjaiEvents.com in regard to the proposed Sunday morning meeting at Libbey Park in #14. Millennium? Like Tyler, I have also had this conversation with various people around town this year. Ojai could be a model community for proving the viability of labor exchange at the local level.
- A local barter bank would be a great way to hold Ojai’s wealth within Ojai.
- A great way to retain value by pegging Ojai Labor Units (OLUs?) to something, anything other than a fiat currency/monetized debt unit like the scummy dollar. Something like the only medium in history that has consistently retained its value against any currency…gold.
- An alternative to going to the local branches of national Fed member banks siphoning off the value of our community and essentially charging Ojaians interest and fees on our own good credit/value/labor/substance being deposited in those same institutions.
- A localized and stabilized trade currency could obviously foster increased economic advantages for the entire community as well.
- Exchange policies could allow conversion into dollars (or soon Ameros) or really any other currency.
- Membership could be limited to full-time Ojai residents.
- Local businesses could offer discounts for tendering OLUs. Point of sale machines for processing OLU’s from one members account to anothers could be offered at no or low cost to local merchants.
- Lithographed paper bills of exchange could be circulated and redeemable by the barter bank.(?) Drafts (checks) could also be used.
- The barter bank could eventually offer local loans at a reasonable interest rate. A 9/10 fractional reserve policy could be considered as opposed to the 1/10 observed by Fed member banks.
- Free of tax on income on all internal transactions since value is not being exchanged in dollars but in private tender for consideration of a private agreement. (Right to Contract)
The true value of a local barter system is retained by the full faith and credit of it’s depositors, it’s creditors and not left to the lecherous policies of non-resident bankers. Nothing can stop this from happening if we all want it enough. I, for one, get sick imagining how much of my labor and substance has been stolen through inflation, interest charges, bank fees, transaction fees, et al by storing my value in a private national banking system that has only ever inflated since it’s inception and despite it’s founders promises otherwise.
Here are some companies that may offer barter systems that may or may not suit our needs and provide insight to the task at hand. Solutions at best and direction at least:
Trade Bank
Barter Bucks
Any local bankers here or known by anyone that would be willing to openly discuss the viability of such a radical idea?
One flaw Todd is that the IRS will demand tax on its assigned dollar value of such a currency. That tax will have to be paid in dollars.
http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/09/mayan-calendar-and-predictions-of-our-financial-system/
in IlluminAlch, Micheal Logos wrote:
SEC bans short-selling!! – Yahoo! News
“Holy US has followed the London lead…
it’s banned short selling altogether [though
temporarily].
We may be off to the races with stocks…”
I know from personal experience, Anonymous, that the IRS can demand nothing. Only request, as they require a signature, an agreement, to levy their alleged income tax. Sure, the IRS may take issue with it or not. I would point to all the online ecurrencies like egold and Ebullion which do not have issue with IRS. Also personal experience. With customer records encrypted and decentralized and numbered the IRS will only have access to the info an individual gives them which is always the case anyhow.
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