ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

Perhaps you could clarify MT?

Does this have anything to do with the spraying in Matilija Canyon?

Are we calling Steve Bennett because of the menace of purplish men with red dots on two chakra points?

I love the Ojai Post!!!

hmmmmmm..... maybe the Ojai Post needs a code of conduct for its Authors, just as it has for commenters.....

such as: When readers directly question or challenge something you have posted, you are ordinarily expected to reply in good faith to their comments.

I concur!

Perhaps linoleum cannot reply you know the computer lab is closed at HELP of Ojai's west campus? The federally funded program was not renewed due to an administrator's flippant attitude towards programing.

I don't know why you all are razzin' MT so much. Not everyone is on a computer several times a day. Some people are out in the world actually doing something with their hands and legs and not behind a desk. He posted this at 12:11pm and less than 24 hours later people are moaning that he isn't answering post questions to him. Give him a break!

I just assumed that he is talking about the herbicide being sprayed in Matilija canyon to eradicate Arundo and other non-native species.
I find it troubling myself and would like more information about it. Have they started spraying the canyon? What is the research on the herbacide Glyphosate? Isn't that Round-up and hasn't that proven to be very toxic to the ground water?

For those who missed the original Post about spraying:

http://www.ojaipost.com/2008/05/toxic_valley_economy_or_loving.shtml#comment-104130

Friends of Eco-Sanity,

Anyone who wants to discover the astonishingly toxic effects of
glyphosate can go here:

http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/Roundup-Glyphosate-Factsheet-Cox.htm

As you can see, it takes 25 pages to list all of the toxic effects --
and key scientific studies documenting the toxic effects -- of
glyphosate.

One of several hundred alarming facts in this article:

"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has identified
74 endangered plant species that it believes could
be jeopardized by glyphosate. This list is based on
the use of glyphosate on 9 crops, and does not include
over 50 other uses."

Ventura County's use of glyphosate may make Ventura County, and
certain employees thereof, responsible for the extinction of plant and
animal species. Does the county and its staff desire accountability --
moral and legal -- for such a negative and historic outcome?

I've cut Arundo, I've removed Arundo plants in their entirety from the
roots. I've done it day after day, in hot weather, in a cloud of
gnats. It's hard work, it takes time, but it's possible and it doesn't
poison our planet for years to come.

If it is a choice between using deadly poison to remove Arundo and
using hard work, perhaps we should let the poison containers gather
dust in Monsanto's factories.

Sincerely,

Jock Doubleday
Director
Natural Woman, Natural Man, Inc.
A California 501(c)3 Nonprofit Corporation
http://www.SpontaneousCreation.org
director@spontaneouscreation.org

Ok, so that's the post we're talking about. Pesticides in small amounts are of course harmful. Our backyard backs up to a huge orchard and one day I looked out my back door to see men (of course, not the owner) spraying chemicals on trees that are adjacent to our property line. I asked them to please not come so close - and pointed out my small children. One man looked at me and said, "It's safe." I replied, "yeah, right." They agreed to stay 4 trees away from the property line, but still, it saturates the ground and flies on the breeze. This, coupled with those leaking, stinking smudge pots, is enough to make me want to move out of this house we are scraping by to pay for.

my email yesterday on the subject which led to this thread...

To: "Patty Pagaling" and friends

Cc: steve.bennett@ventura.org, steve.offerman@ventura.org,
cindy.cantle@ventura.org, ana.benitez@ventura.org

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:25:05 -0700
Re: protecting the watershed and all the living beings...

thanks Patty,

for your two emails.

the watershed is not a 'particular' interest of mine ... nor is information on Round-Up, nor Cane Grass.

to get involved in those dialogs means we do not know what we are talking about ... do not know the reality of life, family, the sacred.

do not know the difference between life and death, between nurturing and raping, between nonviolence and violence, between harmony and war.

do not know and lead lives of honest integrity, building community, returning Mother Earth.

if you wish to lead a campaign to END THE SPRAYING of poisons in all of Goddess Moon, Valley-Wide, on our roads, bike trails, walking trails, schools, by the City of Ojai, and the County of Ventura, the US Forest Service, the whole Federal enchilada, and perhaps the Land Conservancy, any other major govt/corporate poisoners ...

then I can lend a hand, lend a voice, support your work.

only the WHOLE of our Family can think, act, grow, decide, evolve. our whole body.

our whole community of 'Awha'y ...

Millennium Twain

all our relations echoing!

cc: Steve Bennett and office team

uh huh. and while the Millennium is meditating on whether to remove the grass growing in the dirt in his belly-button, many of us are getting sicker from the spraying in the Canyon and the River, and the fish and birds and amphibians are dieing, and more tons of his 'glib-so-fatal' are being added to our drinking water, our breathing air, our garden soil.

I encourage all of the people kvetching here to write to Steve Bennett instead of sniping at each other.

Even though I don't view round up as poiosonous herbicide, the idea of spraying all the arundo seems a bit ridiculous. Why don't we just leave it and get on with more important things? I think it would be impossible to irradicate the arundo. There are lots of non native plants that have arrived here, like the mustard, are we going to try to irradicate all of them?

I agree Brian, if it were up to me I'd likely just let it be. I believe the rationale is that the entire watershed will be restored when the dam comes down.

The Arundo is being removed because it blocks the flow of the creek causing it to spread out and become quite shallow in places. It also accumulates massive amounts of silt which prevents it from flowing downstream. The idea is that when the dam is removed the silt will flow into the Ventura river and then the ocean. There it will be deposited along the coast, as it had been historically, restoring the beaches. I've read somewhere that since the dam went in, beaches in Ventura have receded 200+ ft.

It is also a part of the plan to restore the Steelhead to the area. I believe that this watershed had the largest populations of that fish in So. Cal. I've seen pictures of fishermen before 1948, carrying sticks between two men, loaded with large fish.
I believe much of the funding has to do with the fish restoration.
The Arundo is also only one of the plants being eliminated. Spanish broom, tamarisk, and castor bean are others slated to be removed. I have also heard that a non native frog and a turtle were going to be removed. Don't know if that's true.
You can read about the project here: http://venturaecosystem.blogspot.com/2007/10/arundo-eradication-in-matilija-canyon.html
There are also links from here to read the entire project's scope and goal. The Matilija Coalition and Santa Barbara ChannelKeeper were both in on the planning, oversight, and monitoring.

Headaches, nausea, fatigue, muscle aches, vomiting, etc....

These are the symptoms I experience every time I see a post or comment by MT or Jock. How do we cure ourselves of that disease?

stop all the negativism!! we are all children suckling on the bosoms of the goddess.
do you see?!
fatwah usofaos!

On three separate occasions I have seen these County sprayers spray their green toxic liquids right against private property lines, as well as spraying in riverside areas where people frequent sitting and laying amongst the rocks, spraying all over rocks, dripping their toxins over other plants, and turning much of the river area temporarily sickeningly chemical green. Many believe the criminal corporate advertising propaganda that this is 'safe', being victims, not able to think themselves.

Cal Trans is your biggest toxic sprayer. You need to go after them.

I called Steve Bennett's office this morning. I was told they had received only one or two calls about the spraying. His office assistant read me some encouraging words from a flyer about the arundo eradication and referred me to a community information meeting to be held Tuesday, July 1 at Chaparral Auditorium at 7 pm. I plan to be there.

gangster science and government Re: glyphosate

dearest Sister Patty,

anybody can cut CaneGrass,

I harvested a lot last year for shade.

The Ojai Permaculture Group harvested some
in the River Bottom two weeks ago, for same.

However I am not here to support the gangster
disinfo of the County -- like their 'information'
propaganda control meeting on 1 July.

nor do I get involved in their nonsense ... nor
the State's ... nor the Feds War on the World.

the purpose of poison is to kill us and the watershed,
and the Valley. their advertising has nothing to do
with their purpose, or their works. never has, never
will. if you have ever been involved in politics,
you know their only purpose is to enroll you in
their violence.

I do not get involved in disinfo, fraud, nor violence ...

thus I will never support the propaganda or works
of the county, or state, or fed.

I don't mind if you, and a thousand others, cut
Canegrass. I cut it when I need it.

however I will never be enrolled in supporting the
lies of the County.

the issue is sickness, murder, killing the watershed,
killing the Valley.

their science is a hundred percent lies ... they
will NEVER return the watershed through poisoning
and western science ... only continue to shrink
and kill it every year.

this is trivial and obvious.

the western gangster science knows NOTHING about
permaculture, about the relationship of forest
and earth and aquafirs and life. the electric river
of connection of all things. they teach killing
it. [and that is why none is left in the world
today, less than 5 percent! because their only
knowledge is of killing!]

we are not here to be controlled by some bs about
making the rivers suitable for fish.

the watershed is here to be what it is meant to be,
alive. just as the forests are meant to burn.

this is NOT about CaneGrass sucking water, this
is about gangster government and science killing
our world, and enrolling us to do it.

here is what Australian science says about Willows,
for example:

http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/WebPages/RPIO-4YS9UN?open

get those government creeps out of our way, and
let us remove the dam.

and get them out of the River Bottom, and Matilija
Canyon. it belongs to Mother Nature and our Valley
Family ... not to those murderous goons.

don't buy into their television ... just spend YOUR
truth EVERY DAY, to every one you meet, of the sickness
they are visiting on you and your family, our Valley
and our world.

for ALL Our Sacred Relations,
and End to Goonland Science/Government ..

Millennium Twain

father of the US/Intl Space Station Program,
publisher of the Structure of the Atomic Nucleus,
designer of the X49 Scramjet Spaceplane Series ...

--

----- Original message -----
From: "Patty Pagaling"

Subject: Re: glyphosate

Hello Millennium, and Tom and Jock ~

I would love to see a community group (including myself) commit to go out and do some arundo removal. If we could talk with the county about a certain section of the Matilija Watershed that we will tend ~ with black tarps,
manual removal, and other eco-friendly methods. We need to show them that it is possible to do it without chemicals.

Would you be available for a meeting within the next week (before the county meeting on July 1st)? We could work on a proposal to give to the county about a community (chemical free) arundo eradication plan. If the county
would supply us with black tarps (or perhaps we could get them donated), we would assist the county in their eradication efforts.

We need to come up with a plan.

Please let me know your thoughts on this...

Thanks ~

Patty Pagaling
e-mail: protectmatilija@gmail.com

Reading these comments reminds me of when I served on the Ojai City Council. It is impossible to please everyone, even when you are volunteering your time and doing the best you can under the circumstances, for the greater good.

Patty:

Please know that your sincere attempts to help, to (literally) get your hands dirty and to foster good will and positive community spirit did not go unnoticed.

I have communicated with the county and made it very clear that I do not want any spraying of toxic chemicals on my property. Because of this, a few days ago, a county worker sprayed markers with red paint in front of my house on the road: "NON TREAT" written to designate each side of my property boundary, and arrows with the word “CALL” written on the road 1/4 mile away in both directions: ~ meaning they have to call me to let me know if they will be spraying within a 1/4 mile radius of my house.

If the county is coming on or through your land to do the spraying, let the Public Works Inspector know that you do not give the county permission to come on your land. You can call Ventura County Public Works Inspector at 805-646-0425.

Although I appreciate that the county will not spray on my property, they are still continuing to spray close by, affecting all the beings here. When I take a walk in the canyon, should I wear a gas mask, in case I walk near their spraying? Or should I refrain completely from walking in the canyon for the next several years while they continue their poisoning campaign?

I moved to the canyon less than 2 years ago, to a beautiful, sacred place, and to my horror, the county began to spray poisons into the watershed. I felt the effects of the poisoning (nausea, headaches, body aches). My son and his girlfriend also felt the effects of the poisoning. She became so ill that she had to leave the canyon and doesn't want to come back.

You should see how well the arundo is coming back. The glyphosate is not effective in killing off the arundo, but it is slowly poisoning us all.

I had a good conversation with the Public Works Inspector the other day. I told him that I had experienced being poisoned by the spraying.

The spraying first began in September 2007. One day in October, I was driving out of the canyon, near where the county workers were spraying from lift platforms down near the dam. They were spraying massive amounts of their pretty blue-green toxic mixture from large hoses (like fire hoses). There were no signs to warn anyone.

I immediately felt nauseous, a bad headache and body aches. After I left the canyon, the sensations began to subside and went away. After that experience (as well as other times when I have felt sick from drifts of glyphosate in the air here in the canyon), I know what it is like to feel poisoned. I learned that it is wise to close your vents and windows while going through the canyon during the spraying. (Their plan is to continue spraying for 4 more years.)

After I told the Public Works Inspector about my experience, he related a story from his own life, about having a severe reaction to a prescription drug. He said he was just doing his job ~ what he is told to do, and that we (the people who live in Ojai) need to communicate with the county officials and let them know how we feel.

Let's channel our energy into creating and being a loving, healthy community.
We, the people, have the power to make positive changes.

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/precautionary/

“The precautionary principle says that “when an activity raises threats of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary measures should be taken, even if some cause-and-effect relationships are not fully established scientifically.” It requires the producer of a questionable product or substance to prove that it is safe before it can be used. Currently in the United States, harm must be scientifically proven before a product is taken off the market. The precautionary principle allows the public to shift that burden of proof to the polluter without having complete certainty of harm. If there is some question
about the safety of a new product, that item’s production can be halted to protect society until it is proven to be safe.

“One of the most important examples of precautionary principle in action comes from the Rio Declaration from the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development. The Declaration, which the United States signed, stated:

“In order to protect the environment, the precautionary approach shall be widely applied by States according to their capabilities. Where there are threats of serious or irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost-effective measures to prevent environmental degradation.”

“Science and Environmental Health Network (SEHN) SEHN was founded in 1994 by a consortium of North American environmental organizations (including Environmental Defense, The Environmental Research Foundation, and OMB Watch) concerned about the misuse of science in ways that failed to protect the environment and human health. Since 1998, SEHN has been the leading proponent in the United States of the Precautionary Principle as a new basis for environmental and public health policy.”

Patty, thank you for this report. I know if I was in your shoes I would get the attention of Ventura County Supervisor Steve Bennett IN PERSON, when he holds meetings in Ojai, as well as sending letters and making phone calls.

(Maybe you have aready done this??)

Patty,
Just thought I'd let you know that I'm calling the county today to revoke permission to spray on my property. Though it doesn't concern me as much as it does you, I respect your right to not have it anywhere near your home. I'll take care of the removal myself, by hand...Peace