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If you had a somebody that had planted a nuclear bomb in a large city, like LA or New York and it was ticking away ready to go off with in a few hours I would have no problem torturing that person to find out where the bomb was so I could save millions of people. You, on the other hand, feel that there is more good in respecting your fellow man's diginty ( in this case a mass murderer) than saving that lives of millions of people.

The only entity that nukes anyone (not including testing) is the world's only true terrorist state: the US govt. You can go back to sleep now.

Yes, America is evil.

Oh no. You didn't seriously try to trot out the nuke scenario from 24. Puh-leees! That's just so embarrassing.

Here's what would really happen under your precious scenario. They catch some guy and decide to torture him to find the nuke. He breaks under the pain and tells them anything they want to know. Only trouble is, he's not the guy. So he weeps and tells them the bomb is here or there and they run off looking while they could have been investigating the problem. They find nothing and your apocryphal bomb goes off.

Torture is not about gaining intelligence. In fact, the intelligence gained from the use of torture is notoriously useless. Torture is about control and coercion. It is primarily used as a terror weapon by authoritarian regimes to maintain control over a captive populace, as in the occupation in Iraq. If you would like to learn something about the facts of torture beyond what FOX will show you on 24, try watching Taxi to the Dark Side or reading Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine

It[USA] appears to be dominated by a religion which worships the death and torture of a mythological human being who basically said all we need is love. In fact, this particular religion's symbol depicts this mythological character being tortured and murdered. Thus it should surprise no one that all America really needs is war and torture. Christianity has generally been about death worship for the past 1800 years or so. Christianity invented evil but in actuality its just an illusion, an invisible fence for invisible people. Good luck and thanks for all the fish.

thank you for posting this, Robin! thanks also to Emily for writing it!

the "torture vs. nuclear bomb" scenario as described so quickly by Cyber Judge is an extreme case which so far has never happened. it's also a very tired and lonely talking point in favor of torture. in the VAST MAJORITY of cases there is no ticking nuclear bomb. there's not even a ticking anything. in the VAST MAJORITY of cases there is little more than suspicion of involvement in something we don't like, whispers of "intelligence", rumors of support. we're talking about TORTURING people, here! how might the Golden Rule apply?

If you knew there was a bomb about to go off, and you knew you had the person who set the bomb in your custody, what would you accomplish by torturing the "mass murderer" who set it?

I can think of a couple of things:

1. You would waste precious time that could be spent investigating reliable evidence, increasing the likelihood of disaster;

2. You would increase the possibility of being diverted from looking where the bomb really is - because as we know torture is notoriously unreliable as a way to gain information, and your mass murderer is unlikely to tell you where it really is no matter what you do (but he or she will tell you something, you can bet on that);

3. You would have part of your team that should be trying to find and defuse the bomb, and help evacuate people, wasting their time performing sick rituals on a person.

That's if you actually knew there was a bomb, and knew you had the person who knew where it was - but of course, the likelihood that you would know both those things and not know where the bomb is yourself already is about nil.

On this slimmest of reeds, sick people build an empire based on torture.

We have a President who parrots this ridiculous line. It makes me want to cry.

There have been hundreds of interviews, documentaries and reports on mainstream television and in print publications that document what spk, evan and others here have thankfully pointed out.

Here is a link to the most recent 60 Minute segment on US Torture:

http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/blog/2008/03/31/60-minutes-interviews-another-us-torture-victim/

As old Walt Kelly wrote, “We have met the enemy and he is us”.
In the name of righteousness, this government has led us to become what we loath. To protect freedom, we subvert it. To defend against terrorism, we become terrorists. To mete out justice, we commit one injustice after another.
For a brief moment after 9/11, this country had the sympathy, friendship and support of most of the world. Yet this leadership chose to squander the currency of that good will by invading nations, killing thousands of innocents, and by sacrificing more of our own than were ever killed in the towers...all in our names and in the name of freedom.
It was no surprise this morning when the news reported that 81% of us feel that we have gone in the wrong direction as a country. I am disheartened and disgusted at our missed opportunities, at what is passing for leadership of the nation, at the hypocrisy of my countrymen who value our own freedom over everyone else’s, at our attorney general who can’t see waterboarding as a form of torture and at a president who glibly mouths lies and platitudes to justify promote even more pain and suffering.
What have we become?

Just as I thought, the liberals would do nothing to get information out of a person who planted a bomb. How about tickling him until he peed in his pants? No that would probably rate as torture as well. We can see how our country could be taken over by ruthless criminals with indecisive morons in charge. Boom......a million dead, thank you liberals.

"Sexual intimidation" ? Is that a bad thing?

CJ - I can only hope that whatever mental problem is afflicting you isn't painful.

I guess the US Army Field Manual on Interrogation is unsufficient, eh, Cyber Judge? Geneva Conventions (which protect our soldiers too) are quaint, no?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_34-52_Intelligence_Interrogation

We can see how our country could be taken over by ruthless criminals with indecisive morons in charge. Boom......a million dead

That is a quite accurate description of the Bush administration and our involvement in Iraq. Cuts both ways, CJ.
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/14/3839/

Boy oh boy ! To shay ! I did't realize you all could be so quick with the logical retort ! Brilliant !

This is just sad.

CJ: you've been outhought, outclassed and your mind lives in an outhouse. Thanks for proving once again that torture is indefensible and seems to only be supported by those with sub 100 IQs. Congratulations on learning to read and type - it obviously did not come easy to you. I commend you on overcoming your learning disability - you at least have that going for you. Good night and thanks for all the fish.

rb, Thanks for being so sensitive to murderers, it shows the advanced social awarness we can all learn from.

As a victim of torture I have only this to say; I was trained to resist torture tactics and when it happened I was in extreme pain, fear and humiliation, and it worked. They got what they wanted from me, I'm not proud of that, but then again, I wouldn't expect any one of you speculators to fair any better in that situation.

#18(CJ): Bullsh!t

Bumper stickers from CommonDreams.org, 10 for $15!
My America Doesn't Torture!

Get yourself a T-Shirt

I love torturing terrorists

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/torturing+terrorists/-/pv_design_details/pg_1/id_14744646/opt_/fpt_/c_666/

re comment #21: i love it when someone makes one "design" and then slaps it on literally EVERY product that cafepress offers. it's even on baby onesies. sick.

It comes printed on a thong also !

The Torture Memo and the Outrage,
Letters to the Editor in April 7, New York Times

To the Editor:

Andrés Vera Martínez
Related ’03 U.S. Memo Approved Harsh Interrogations (April 2, 2008)

Editorial: There Were Orders to Follow (April 4, 2008) Re “ ’03 U.S. Memo Approved Harsh Interrogations” (front page, April 2):

It’s high time that the authors of the Bush administration’s legal recipe book for torture be brought out of the kitchen and into the courtroom. Yet despite volumes of highly credible evidence of human rights crimes, or even war crimes, a negligent Congress continues to fail miserably in its responsibility to mandate proper investigations into these cruel policies.

The United States’ moral and political standing in the world have completely eroded, and legitimate prosecutions of crimes against humanity against the United States have been compromised. Congress must finally face its own complicity in torture with concrete measures — not shortsighted hearings — by ordering a full, independent investigation into how torture became United States modus operandi and holding those responsible accountable.

Curt Goering

Deputy Executive Director

Amnesty International USA

New York, April 2, 2008

•

To the Editor:

The Bush administration attributes detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere to the rogue actions of a few soldiers and a lack of clear interrogation guidelines. But the mounting evidence, particularly the declassified memo by John C. Yoo, a former Justice Department official, proves that administration officials themselves are responsible for the torture and cruel treatment of detainees in United States custody.

The continuing effort to exempt the president from anti-torture law, among other revelations, shows that the government’s calculated policy of torture originated at the highest levels of the administration. The Justice Department’s interpretation of long-held tenets of American and international law provided the executive branch with the unlimited power to treat detainees as it saw fit.

Longstanding legal precedents were willfully twisted to justify a systematic regime of abuse employing the expertise of military psychologists and medical personnel. These “enhanced” techniques inflicted severe and lasting harm on detainees — the kind of harm explicitly criminalized by the United States War Crimes Act.

The use of these interrogation techniques has eroded our international standing and compromised the rule of law. The question is no longer who is responsible. The question now is whether they will be held accountable.

Frank Donaghue

Chief Executive

Physicians for Human Rights

Cambridge, Mass., April 3, 2008

•

To the Editor:

Your April 4 editorial “There Were Orders to Follow” brings attention to additional evidence that it could take years to unearth the full extent of the damage inflicted on our nation by this Bush administration.

While it will never happen, once the election is over, an independent commission should be appointed to investigate once and for all the nation’s unseemly march to war, the administration’s apparent disregard for civil liberties and international standards of conduct, and its support of policies that served to advance cronyism, self-dealing and economic waste on a monumental scale.

For future generations to be able to identify and marginalize such conduct, it needs to be identified and exposed. While security demands vigilance to thwart the enemy from without, we should not ignore the more insidious dangers posed by contemptible policies foisted on us from within.

Robert I. Goodman

Rye Brook, N.Y., April 4, 2008

To the Editor:

I was reminded of how differently the Truman administration was advised to respond to the Soviet Union.

In 1946 George F. Kennan was asked to explain why the Soviet Union was behaving as it was. In his famous “long telegram,” Kennan discussed how the Kremlin leaders justified the dictatorship and the “cruelties” they inflicted, along with the threat that Communist expansion posed to the West.

The way to respond to despotism and the Communist threat, he concluded, was to “have the courage and self-confidence to cling to our own methods and conceptions of human society. After all, the greatest danger that can befall us in coping with this problem of Soviet Communism, is that we shall allow ourselves to become like those with whom we are coping.”

It is more than regrettable that John C. Yoo and others in the Bush administration failed to remember Kennan’s sage advice.

Kenton Clymer

DeKalb, Ill., April 4, 2008

The writer is a presidential research professor and chairman of the history department at Northern Illinois University.