DA, is it meth or some pharmaceutical for ADD. Your reading comprehension lacks something to be desired. BTW, are you also R. Miller and The Thinker. Something about your inability to follow facts is familiar from that thread.

I respect your opinion even if they are not logical. You think with your heart which is not always bad, but in this case it is helping no one. Least of all our own citizens. I understand not all illegals are terrorists of hardcore criminals, although I am sure there are many out there now, thanks to this mess. I really believe anyone who has strong views for illegal immigrants, are serving them best by going to, and helping them in their own countries, not encouraging them to break the law by coming here, and fighting our immigration laws to stay. And I do not support the idea of them coming here simply for the good life. I would like a brand new car and home as well. And as a legal citizen these are my rights to strive for, not theirs. But I am not being payed under the table to get them, or sneak into another country. These things infurate me as an American citizen, as it does most of the rest of the nation. As far as my saying they are not starving, this is what pro illegal people insinuate when they want us to believe they come for a better life. When in all actuality it is just material things they want. If you don’t feel sorry for them and know they love their countries and do not want to become citizens, why are you championing for them to stay, simply to help them get the better ‘material’ things of life? Think logically.

The leader of NMI has a tattoo that some say is gang related. That is different then a lip ring.
If someone asked me if my lip ring was gang related I would quickly answer no, But NMI doesn’t answer questions like that.
But history of violence?
How about this article?
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2007/09/207304_comment.php
Seems the leader of NMI was filming right where a protester was peppersprayed by one of his goons but yet with all his filming going on he missed it and didn’t help the police solve the potential crime.
Dem against illegal immigration, you clearly have an agenda.
Aren’t you bothered that NMI can’t condemn this statement from the founder of SOS?
“I can make the argument that just because one believes in white separatism that that does not make them a racist. I can make the argument that someone who proclaims to be a white nationalist is not necessarily a white supremacist. I don’t think that standing up for your “kind” or “your race” makes you a bad person.”[3]
Seems like they claim to not be racist as they shout stuff about brown people. Did you see the video where Jean From Fillmore goes on a tirade about brown people?
They are armed and they are looking for trouble. They want you to push them so they can pepperspray you. They are goons looking for trouble that don’t cooperate with police if it could hurt their side.
Be careful.

It doesn’t matter what tattoo a person has, just as it doesn’t matter if someone has a pierce. It’s tit for tat, childish nonsense. Of course I have an agenda Safety, what does my name suggest? It doesn’t say Dem FOR Illegal Immigration. I put no more faith in that website then I do any others. That website is as racist as you say SOS is, I have looked at them both. I am not here to fight with organizations as you are. I guess according to your logic, it depends on which racist way you want to go. I am here to discuss illegal immigration and the bad effects on our country. I am not interested in your petty fights.

Hey Tom From Ventura County – I appreciate your comments. Sounds like that bunch you were with Saturday could have learned something from you.
Your son is over on the NMI website calling the good people of our fair city “goons.” Apple seems to be falling a bit far from the tree. (No worries, we know kids grow up to be their own people.)
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2008, 09:36:18 AM »
Quote from: LibertyForAll? on March 29, 2008, 08:22:34 PM
This was an awesome event. Even though there were only a small amount of us there, I think we drove the point home. I’m John by the way (the guy with the buzz cut ) and the guy with the ponytail was my dad, Tom. I’m glad to hear that everyone got out ok and that those goons didn’t start any trouble. You can definitely count on me to be present at future events.
http://www.nomoreinvasion.com/forum/index.php?topic=2457.90

I love how the SOS side keeps touting the wonderful report in the Ventura County Star when it was self-news and someone no doubt closely connected to them wrote the report. As a journalist, I am surprised that could have been even closely considered “news” and fair reporting. It was about as one sided a report as I have seen. Granted, there have been some serious issues with liberally-slanted news; however, I personally find good solid points on both sides, and yet I think that the execution of the argument methods is childish and detracts from any wholesome debate that might occur should both sides act in maturity. It is the goal of news reporters to objectively report the sequences of events and not to add in their personal biases or opinions in this type of article. Having been there myself, most of the statements I have read that were written by the SOS have been full of error. I have not yet investigated the “opposition’s” interpretation of the event, but I am sure I will find similar self-serving reports there as well.
People, leave the reporting to the reporters- your job is to hold the signs and do your protest thing, it is hard to stay objective when you’ve just gotten done threatening to pepper spray a 16 year-old and then you go sit down at your type-writer. And unless you were running around to every corner taking quotes and not looking to slant the news, you’ve shot your story in the foot as far as being objective.
cheers

“cheers- journalist” posted:
“As a journalist, I am surprised that could have been even closely considered “news” and fair reporting…It is the goal of news reporters to objectively report the sequences of events and not to add in their personal biases or opinions in this type of article……”
“As a journalist, I am surprised” ???????
“news reporters to objectively report the sequences of events”?????
Then you showed YOUR personal biases and gave your opinion here as a journalist,….”it is hard to stay objective when you’ve just gotten done threatening to pepper spray a 16 year-old and then you go sit down at your type-writer…”
The article was allowed, officially veted, and posted on a clearly marked Your News site, a Ventura County Star’s community based Internet egalitarian contributor writer’s site. (Many large news oganizations are doing the same in the southern California.) Clearly you didn’t agree or like the article’s content for your own reasons. Freedom of Speech and press is protected, even liberal biase everyday press. I have seen that in newspapers and I have been a news reading victim of that for years with little recourse than un-subscribing to biase big newspapers. (That is probably why newspapaers are loosing readers and going out of business.)
People should get more involved in politics and share their views because the election participating voting numbers have been terrible for years. If this Your News article gets people interested in politics, great. And as a self professed journalist, you should be examined by your clear show of opinionated biase written here against a fellow (maybe competitor) Internet writer. Everyone has the right to air their views or is this another instance of possible conservatives just getting a liberal’s smear tactics from the press or by you? Internet gives everyone a pulpit. Welcome to the real world.

“What? So every person who disagrees with illegal immigration is a nazi? I highly doubt”
Of course not all, Dem, but quite a few, no?
http://www.civilrights.org/press_room/buzz_clips/civilrightsorg-stories/some-anti-immigration.html?templateName=29304566&print=t

re: DAII
I’ll concede that my heart is in this argument, but it is shaped by deducing what has gone on for decades on this issue. In other words, logically, I’ve concluded the problem that exist is not the fault of illegals, but that of our leaders who won’t fix it. You and your kind have an agenda I don’t agree with, but respect. I think pushing leaders to action will give a compramise that we all can live with.

One last comment to Dana, which I overlooked. “Me and my kind?” I’m hoping you mean either for or against illegal immigration, but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t your intent. I also sincerely hope you are not a racist socialist who is trying to destroy what our country has stood for since the beginning. Communism is not the answer.

A number of folks here have made comments along the lines of “both sides” Saturday were out of line, not very effective for their “side”, etc. “Both sides” being the two out of town groups, NMI/SOS and the collective from Oxnard (“Frente Against the Raids”?).
Well, there are political views and ideologies, and those diverge, and everyone needs to choose for themselves where they choose to put their political faith.
But I don’t think people are being fair to that group from Oxnard. Sure, their political ideology, to the extent it was coherent, didn’t seem to be mine.
But there also comes a time when you’ve got to call heroes and villains. My definition of heroes are those that come out and stand up for those less able to protect themselves. My heroes don’t have to be saints. They don’t even have to have views I find reasonable, or tasteful. In fact, they can believe in everything I don’t. But in my book, people who step out, into the breach, at risk to themselves, on their own, volunteering, to stand between those who would do harm and their intended victims, when they place themselves in harm’s way to protect those more vulnerable than themselves – those are heroes.
And I think we already know by now that SOS/NMI are true villains. They are a hate group, and they came here to do harm. They had no petitions to sign. Theirs was not intended to be a peaceful demonstration to call attention to the issue of illegal immigration. They came here to confront. At least one was armed, with her pepper spray. Their express purpose was to intimidate and “”document” and “report” members of our community who don’t share their skin color, who were just out to get work, who may or may not be documented, but certainly were vulnerable.
Let’s give credit to the Oxnard folks, who, whatever their political philosophy, whatever their views, whatever their “message”, after all is said and done came out to stand up for the innocent, and stand up to the hate. They stepped up and came out when it was not clear what was going to go down. They deserve our thanks and appreciation.
That’s not an endorsement of their message or politics – just their character. And for that, I say, unlike NMI/SOS, those “Frente” folks are welcome in Ojai anytime.

Re: “you and your kind” comment I made. By that I meant those who espouse the arresting and deportation of illegal aliens to achieve a consequence desired: The removal of millions of brown people-claimed to have taken much needed jobs, for that sin, to be vanquished.
Tell me DAII: ?If our president and congress were to come up with a legal prescription that would allow these millions to cross north legally to work, for a time certain, then to return home for a time certain before being allowed to return, would you accept that?
That is the type of solution I would like to see. And it seems to meet your demand for legallity.
Or do you have a different plan you would like to put forward?
This seems quite a Logical Solution to me. It would allow for safe and sane travel north, take the money out of the trafficking, takes the incentive out of staying here longer than one would-for they know that in time they can return-thus preventing the building of roots in this country, make it easier to keep track of people, more taxes for the treasury and the list of benefits is bigger than what I’ve listed here.
It’s one thing to argue that they are breaking the law and try to hold them accountable, but it is quite another thing to offer a solution that is in the best interest of all parties concerned: The illegal alien wanting work; The employers who need them; The citizens who want accountability from both; The government who must enforce rational laws; The families south of the border who look forward to a bread winners safe and sane return-that when they sain themselves, they actually believe protection is afforded them.

The UFW leader (Cesar Chavez) was no friend to illegal immigration
until he became an ethnic figurehead. By Steve Sailer
In California, only three birthdays are official state holidays: Jesus Christ’s, Martin Luther King’s, and Cesar Chavez’s. Beatification as a secular saint, though, isn’t always good for the soul. A recent four-part exposé by reporter Miriam Pawel in the Los Angeles Times revealed how the labor leader turned revered ethnic icon descended into paranoia, megalomania, and general crack-pottery in the 15 years before his death in 1993.
Today, his United Farm Workers functions less as a union it represents only 2 percent of the California agricultural workforce than as a lucrative Latino-pride fundraising machine providing sinecures for a dozen Chavez relatives. Pawel writes, Chavez’s heirs run a web of tax-exempt organizations that exploit his legacy and invoke the harsh lives of farm workers to raise millions of dollars in public and private money. The money does little to improve the lives of California farm workers, who still struggle with the most basic health and housing needs and try to get by on seasonal, minimum-wage jobs.
From 1965 to 1981, the UFW succeeded in raising wages significantly for stoop laborers in California. Since then, their pay has fallen, and they’ve lost most of the fringe benefits they had won. Today, most make less than $10,000 per year. Hundreds were discovered near Salinas living in caves, a mass indignity that even that town’s most famous son, John Steinbeck, barely anticipated in The Grapes of Wrath.
Unfortunately, in focusing on gossip about the personal foibles of Chavez and his successors, the LA Times series completely ignored the politically incorrect paradox of who was most responsible for wiping out the gains Mexican-American farm workers had achieved through strikes and consumer boycotts: illegal immigrants from Mexico.
His success stemmed from the long-term decline in the farm labor supply. According to agricultural economist Philip L. Martin of the University of California, Davis, migrant farm workers in the U.S. numbered 2 million in the 1920s. Eisenhower cracked down on Mexican illegal immigrants, shipping one million home in 1954 alone. The famous 1960 Harvest of Shame documentary by CBS newsman Edward R. Murrow inspired liberal Democrats in Congress to abolish the bracero guest-worker program in 1964. The supply of migrant workers dropped to about 200,000, most of them American citizens, making unionization and better contracts feasible as long as what Marx called the reserve army of the unemployed could be bottled up south of the border. The next year, Chavez began his storied organizing campaign.
Growers fought back by busing the reserve army up from Mexico. In 1979, Chavez bitterly testified to Congress:
‘when the farm workers strike and their strike is successful, the employers go to Mexico and have unlimited, unrestricted use of illegal alien strikebreakers to break the strike. And, for over 30 years, the Immigration and Naturalization Service has looked the other way and assisted in the strikebreaking. I do not remember one single instance in 30 years where the Immigration service has removed strikebreakers.’ The employers use professional smugglers to recruit and transport human contraband across the Mexican border for the specific act of strikebreaking.
In 1969, Chavez led a march to the Mexican border to protest illegal immigration. Joining him were Sen. Walter Mondale and Martin Luther King’s successor as head of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Ralph Abernathy.
The UFW picketed INS offices to demand closure of the border. Chavez also finked on illegal alien scabs to la migra. Columnist Ruben Navarrette Jr. reported in the Arizona Republic, Cesar Chavez, a labor leader intent on protecting union membership, was as effective a surrogate for the INS as ever existed. Indeed, Chavez and the United Farm Workers Union he headed routinely reported, to the INS, for deportation, suspected illegal immigrants who served as strikebreakers or refused to unionize.
Like today’s Minutemen, UFW staffers under the command of Chavez’s brother Manuel patrolled the Arizona-Mexico border to keep out illegal aliens. Unlike the well-behaved Minutemen, however, Chavez’s boys sometimes beat up intruders.
MORE at LINK
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_02_27/article.html

A little info some NMI members:
AmericanPatriot77 is Dennis Slater (He’s the tall, skinny meth addict). He was kicked out of SOS by Chelene Nightengale for being TOO racist.
SZinLA is Sam Ziselman, an attorney by occupation
Old Preach is Don Silva, he’s the enforcer for Save Our State. There are pictures of him in indymedia holding a Save Our State banner along with “The Advocate”, a member of Stormfront. He’s also a NMI member.