ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

this thread may or may not get a lot of traffic, but the issues at hand are certainly timely and "hot". i'd just like to remind us all of the comment ethics that appear just above the comment-typing section. i think that if we cannot engage as human adults in a dialogue about critical issues with the respect and civility that the Ojai Post values, then we're just frightened animals.

Evan-
what is your position on this issue?

thanks for asking, El A. i will not claim to have it all figured out, but i'd call my position "Justice & Compassion". there's no getting around that under current law there are people who have entered our country illegally. but i observe that the collective "we" often lose sight of the fact that they are people (just as in war, we must dehumanize them in order to be able to carry out atrocities...like labeling people as "illegals"). my observation of the protests today is that the day laborers are almost secondary and incidental to the posturing between the protest groups. i did not observe one person from either group actually try to seriously engage the laborers themselves.

your turn.

it's almost as complicated as the middle east situation, but closer to home for me.
my personal quality of life would probably suffer if we didn't have "illegals" willing to work for less.
Yet I recognize they are "breaking the law" and there are other "unintended consequences" such as their effect on the educational system and health care system.
I will abstain for the moment.

Having been there today and having almost gotten pepper-sprayed by some flag-waving anti-immigration woman, I almost feel like the anti-immigration groups mentioned should be classified as hate groups. It didn't take much for me to feel completely threatened and unsafe, talking to them (a can of pepper spray pointed right at my eyes didn't help), and I guess my name may be in the papers anyway with the journalists I talked to and my "gesture of solidarity" in showing support for the day workers, so I'm going to post this comment here. I'm not looking to cause trouble, but the way they were acting was beyond the pale. I would support the authorities paying more of an eye on them to make sure things don't get uglier than today got. That's all.

All I can say is that if I had to pick who I'd rather have near me for the rest of my life -- 100 honest day laborers, or 10 of the people who were protesting on the corner today, I'd take the 100 day laborers.

Any problems with immigration pale in comparison to the problems caused by frightened hateful Americans who believe that they have been selected to save the rest of us.

history has shown that when there are hard economic times the facsists among us look for a group of people to scapegoat.
i understand that immigration is a complex subject but the minutemen are not interested in understanding or solving the problem.

I attending the protest, and when a very large,raging woman came at one of our members calling her a racist.I have seen what can happen during what appear to be minor conflicts and attempt to diffuse them as soon as possible if that means taking out my pepper spray and asking an antagonist to step aside, so be it!

Here is a link to one of the orgs present today. Read and learn about the adverse effects of illegal immigration and what you can do to help stop ILLEGAL
immigration.

http://www.nomoreinvasion.com/forum/index.php?topic=2457.msg16021#new

To the editor, stop parroting MSM lies. We do not use fear and intimidation to fight illegal immigration, although many a times we have feared for our lives. Personally my threaten by gangbangers.

Stop living in a bubble and do your own research.

Illegal immigration equals,CRIME,OVERPOPULATION,DEPRESSION OF WAGES TO THE AMERICAN WORKER,HIGHER TAXES,INFRASTUCTURE DESTRUCTION AND THE LIST GOES ON.

Making you own beds and having your kids mow your lawns is a step in the right direction. If you can't do the work yourself,call labor ready and ask for an American citizen.. as many illegals use falisfied docs.

Saveourstate.org

I am a legal immigrant. When I came to America with my family we did the same menial jobs that many illegal immigrants now do. My father picked oranges, dug ditches, pulled weeds, built rockwalls, and did every imaginable clean up job you can think of. We shoveled chicken shit, horse hit and dog shit. Anything to put food on the table!

Any one who has ever experienced poverty, the struggle to survive and learn English, and being treated like a second-class citizen, will see the current situation through the eyes of compassion. The anger that is now vented at those who enter the country illegall is misdirected. This problem will not be solved unless we address the root cause which is poverty, resulting from the unequal distribution of wealth.

In this age of unprecedented economic growth, billions of people still live on less than $1 a day. Half the population of the world lives on less than $2 a day. For those who cannot grasp that solutions lie in understanding the interconnectedness of problems rather than confronting them in isolation such as securing our borders, think of it this way: The family living next door to you is starving. They keep coming over the fence to raid your pantry. No matter how many locks you put on the gate or how much better you secure the fence, they figure out some way to climb over or dig underneath or break in, even when more and more of them die in the process of trying.

one of the things i noticed when perusing the forums of the anti-immigrant sites was a distinctly degraded sense of spelling and grammar. i'm not trying to be cute...i'm serious. i can imagine that happening if one were to type from a constantly agitated place, or if one were simply under-educated. either way, it harms the credibility of any argument to not be able to articulate it with proper language.

here we have example in Susan (thank you!) of the mentality at work: diffusing an argument means using pepper spray instead of words, there are labels flying everywhere which reduce people to things they are suspected of having done, and gross oversimplification of the problem by equating illegal immigration with every societal ill that one dislikes as though it were the sole cause.

i'd like to link to the other immigration thread here, because i think it's very good and will complete the discussion. some very good points have already been addressed there that are being brought up here.

Evan, two pieces of advice:

1. Before you ever place another writing, bearing your name as author, on the internet where everyone on the planet can find it, for the love of God, have an editor at the local paper check it first!

2. Consider spending a little less time studying "social structures" (as described in your bio) and give some thought to checking out a few grammatical rules concerning sentence structure.

Thanks for the chuckle, you "Justice & Compassion" champion, you!

Hey, Sam:

In my book, you can't be Jewish and a white supremacist. Pick one or the other.

A little background on Sam Zislman/Ziselman. He's the guy who organized yesterday's anti-immigration rally. Apparently, he's a lawyer and a professor at UC Irvine:

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Zislman_Samuel_1146367554.aspx

Evan....really, not one really cares about your one opinion on illegals or peace. you are the first person that the islamic gestapo will gas and grind up in a wood chipper and the illegals will take you home and any goodies you have collected through your short kiddie life. you are insignificant. get real.

Yeah, I think I would post anonymously too, if I were to speak with such hate and bile.

Hey Seenitall, why don't you go buy some more meth. Really, what were you people thinking coming up to Ojai. Stay in Orange County. Stay in Simi Valley. Stay in Moorpark. You and your hateful, ignorant lot who are all watching this post need to understand that you are not wanted here.

ah, the game of "shoot the messenger" has begun, rather than addressing the issues.

in a strange way, however, i think thanks are in order to the Minutemen for coming to our community. it is forcing us to have this discussion which is critical in our nation, state, and valley. there is a caveat, though: it needs to be a discussion and not a hate-slinging contest. some of you/us are doing that, and i appreciate it.

seenitall, i was mostly reporting on the scene and experience without a whole lot of commentary, and exactly one person does care about my position: El A asked for it specifically in comment #2, and i responded. i'm intrigued that illegal immigrants from Mexico have suddenly morphed into an "islamic gestapo". i don't imagine that it's comfortable to live and think in such terrible paranoia and fear as you're displaying. i don't mean that as a dig or insult...that's really what i read from you. i hope we can find a way to address those unmet needs.

Anon 11:06, i hear your frustration and anger...but your words seem just as inflammatory and violent as those of the groups you dislike. i guess it's a good time to remind everyone - AGAIN - about the "civility and respect" ethics that govern us here.

Boy, after reading the news these days, I'm writing Boxer to get more involved in immigration reform before the flag-draggers do something stupid, ugly, and violent, even more so than they were acting at this protest.

Susan (if that was her name, the tall angry woman waving the flag who's reputed to be a Ventura millionaire) didn't use pepper spray to "defuse" an argument. She used it to escalate one into a physical altercation, with me, which I ran across the street rather than engage in. And I wasn't the only one threatened. Don't believe the hype, folks.

I was at this protest and I can say whoever did this article posted some things that are flat out lies. Next time research things before posting because when you dont your credibility goes down the toilet. Thanks.

So, as we see, bigotry is alive and thriving in Ojai. You so easily throw the labels of “Fascist”, “Nazi”, “White Supremist” and “Racist” (none of which are true, but why muddy the waters with truth) without actually addressing the issues that brought these groups to your town. While you oh-so-smugly denounce those who advocate actually enforcing the laws of this state and this country, little is mentioned about the (much larger) group of protesters which included (self avowed) communists, (self avowed) anarchists and “one world/no borders” advocates with a definite mob mentality. None of the former group expressed “anti-immigrant” views; it was a protest about ILLEGAL immigration and the policies of our government, as well as the government of Mexico which, in reality, allow the exploitation of these otherwise honest, hard working people.

I fully support anyone of any race, nationality or ethnicity that arrives in this county legally in the search for a better life for themselves and their families. That was what this country was founded upon, that is what has made this county the beacon of hope for the rest of the world.

The threat of Pepper spray was mentioned in the comments section, and yes, I did witness a woman brandish a can of pepper spray when one of those “heroes of the oppressed masses” attempted to steal her American flag out of her hands. Apparently self defense, the defense of property and flying the American flag is frowned upon by some while theft is deemed acceptable behavior. There may have been other instances involving the threat of pepper spray; that was the only one I saw.

While you sit comfortably in your little Shangri-La, those people you claim to care so much about take care of your lawns, your properties and the dirty work that would otherwise require you to skip your morning latte. No thought is given to the fact that you probably paid more (on an annual basis) for those luxuries than you have contributed to the welfare of those that you exploit in your delusional view of “compassion”. Don’t let the fact that the toilet you allow them to scrub probably cost more than you pay them to disrupt your morning. While one bemoans the inconvenience of facing reality before your first cup of coffee, you ignore the realities of those who provide that coffee.

Here is the truth of the matter: our government is spending billions of our dollars every day to liberate Iraq and Afghanistan but refuses to spend the time and energy to secure our borders. While those people that you rely on to keep your Shangri-La in order walk across that border in search of a better life, along with them travel drug smugglers, hard core criminals and, quite probably, people whose only goal in life is to destroy this country. Yes, I am playing the terrorist card. You see, illegal immigration is just too easy to accomplish. Until we put down the latte and face that ugly reality we are, as a country, exploiting those less fortunate than ourselves and facilitating the movement of those who seek to harm and destroy this life and this country we have built.

By the way, in case it maters at all, I am not nor have I ever been a member of the Minutemen, SOS NMI or any other organization, I was there representing myself and my views.

I really appreciate your assumption of my affiliation... shows real lack of prejudice on your part.

Tom,

Just because you posted it on two different threads doesn't make your statement any more correct.

Evan: (I'll bet you are enjoying all this blog traffic and some false blog notariety?) You have got things so wrong about me. I see you reading comprehension is below par. Evan Austin posted,QUOTE "i'm intrigued that illegal immigrants from Mexico have suddenly morphed into an "islamic gestapo".UNQUOTE My original post (for your and readers clear understanding, since you missed my point), QUOTE "you are the first person that the islamic gestapo will gas and grind up in a wood chipper AND (new clause containing a new subject & verb) the illegals will take you home and any goodies you have collected through your short kiddie life." UNQUOTE. That is a compound english sentence with two independant clauses connected with a conjunctive with two subjects and two verbs in each clause. These are distinct clause statements: one on islamic gestapo and the other on illegal aliens. YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY CONFUSED THE TWO. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. I am sorry to have read your iditotic response to my direct clear understandable comments because it says more about your total lack of english reading comprehension or your lack of schooling or intelligence. Sorry! Everyone else got my meaning Mr. Ojai Peace club. Or are do you enjoy making an a$$ out of yourself in public on your own inconsequential blog? You are only laughable now. But, that's just as good to. [shrug] Suit yourself. I never try to get between an idiot and his Charles Darwin Award for lamest species. Get smarter will ya.
-

What a poor impotent fool you are - In your foolish, silly, impotent rhetoric, you don't even come close to the likes of a balanced and helpful and intelligent person like Evan, someone who wants to help and serve his community. People like you are a joke - but what the hell, it takes all kinds...Seems God somehow made you too - but I wish you were a happier soul instead of the miserable fool you are - God Bless you - I wish you luck having a good time in this world - Give it a rest and go play with your kids or dog or something you love...your friend if you'd only let me...

English is capitalized!

But he got to show off his really cool cartoon photoshop art logo expertise for his peace club!

#12 to Sam Zislman: Evan does not need your stupid advice, neither does anyone else. Only ignorant anal-fools like you get stuck on grammar ad-nauseam - if you were a little bit more caring and a lot more comatose, the world would be a better place - but No! you had to come out and play with normal nice everyday people and be rude and stupid, like your ridiculous disciple Susan (the OGRE) OR Seenitall (The LIZARD). Actually I'd love to sign my name, but it would be a horror to even for a moment imagine you sicko's even thinking of me! EEEEEEEEECK! your friend, if only that were possible!

a picture is worth a thousand words - commentary on the "seenitall" grammar lesson...
http://memewatch.com/thelist/archives/pix/morans.jpg

Let's all keep the debate polite, people...that was part of the problem on Saturday...

Hey, what fun.
Ahhh.."Viva MMP"....you mis-spelled a word, 'morons'...
It's spelled..."M-O-R-O-N-S" and on your photo signage.
My work is done here. Enough said. The moonbats here are getting too thick (headed).

What fun indeed, Seenitall, thanks for proving my point. Your work IS done here.

seenitall,

i am glad THIS ISSUE is receiving some traffic, but i have no personal stake or ego involved in it.

thanks for the grammatical clarity. i guess where i'm confused is whether we're talking about illegal immigration or the "islamic gestapo"...there would seem to be some topic-mixing taking place. IS there such a thing, really? let's not toss around severe-sounding terms without being clear about what they mean.

i'm intrigued and more than a little amused that we both attended the same event (or, if you were not there, you at least support it) and yet somehow i am "laughable" and this blog is "inconsequential" because i shared my experience, and on your lofty credibility? i don't need the free labels, thanks.

let's TRY to address the issues, please.

(Gordo, you're on the wrong thread, and i made it in Illustrator, but thanks for noticing!)

If you guys aren't racist will you condemn the idea that white nationalists aren't racist and will you reject anyone that works with them including members of your groups shown supporting Neo-Nazis in this video?

Are the members of SOS/NMI cheering on the Neo-nazis still welcome at your events?

Start watching at about minute 4.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CW-bbs-zOaU

They aren't racist? Liars.

I live in Oak view and am happy not to pay the outrageous property taxes of Ojai.In desperation to scrap up more tax revenue for their cash strapped city, there was a vote to incorporate Oak view with Ojai,thankfully it failed...else the last bastion (besides Mieners Oaks) of American Blue collar workers would die...Replaced by illegals living 20 to a house! You speak of " your " bucolic Ojai! How dare you attempt to dissuade American citizens,no matter where from, who simply want the laws of our land obeyed from standing on our sidewalks,you my friend do not own them! It is ironic that you welcome total illegal strangers instead of flag waving Citizens concerned about their nations future.
We are not racist,but realist,unless we reverse the flow of illegal immigration we will have anarchy and that is exactly what those who pander to illegals desire,unless you want the same you are simply playing into their hands.

As far as the flag dragging,show me one pic where I am dragging a flag.The only time my flag hit the ground was when the lemming drew attempted to steal my flag when driving past,he became enraged at the sight of OUR nations flag and me waving it! He raced from a vehicle hastily parked ran up to me and grabbed my flag dragging it on the ground!

The black chick who came racing over to our side of the street with both hands clenched in fists, was asked to step back as she was spewing racist remarks to one of our members and myself, not knowing who the deranged woman was or if she was armed with a knife etc.and again having witnessed the brutality committed on members in the past, I was perfectly within the limits of the law pulling out my pepperspray and would do it again in a heartbeat whenever I feel threatened!
We will hold future protest in Ojai and other areas within the tri counties. Call us what you want,think what you want of us, you seem to have bought the lies of La Razist and MSM,besides prepetrated them here on this blog.
You are too pathetic to debate any further.

Oh and for the record I am not a Ventura millionaire!Though I was not surprised to learn the threatening young woman is a student at the elitist Thatcher School!

Susan - no one wants to debate you - we just want you to go away and please don't take your clothes off just in case you decide to punctuate your misery like one of our other local-yocals. Although drapping yourself in the American flag might lighten you up a bit. And don't forget to take your lithium dear.

Susan, I never put a finger on you or your flag, and I can almost certainly find witnesses to testify that. I questioned you, you pulled out the spray, I ran across the street. Plenty of people saw, including the watching sheriff, I believe. This kind of libel won't hold up in court.

Your cameraman friend is propagating this lie on YouTube as well, and I won't be having it, just letting you know. He was the one who tried to claim I threatened him with a firearm, in the middle of the street, loud enough for passersby to hear. I have done neither of these things; I will not allow your group to destroy my reputation with violent slander.

I may have to look into the possibility of having you both jailed before you can libel anyone else in this fashion. This is criminal.

I additionally note how she posts "For the record" and then uses the name "Anonymous". Or maybe that's not her!

"For the record, your honor, I'd like to speak this statement anonymously..."

(laughs)

Here's OVN photographer Rob Clement's video from Saturday:

http://ojaivalleynews.com/Soundslides/Anti_Immigration/3_29_08_AntiImmigration.mov

It clearly shows a woman - presumably "Susan" - coming up to a young African American woman and threatening her with pepper spray. No question it was not "self-defense." Drew, if that's you being threatened, you can consider filing a complaint with the DA. There are also plenty of witnesses who can testify if necessary to this woman's racist spew, which might add a hate crime element to what this sick woman did.

I am all for free speech, but terrorizing people whose skin is a different color from seeking work - which was the intent of these people's "demonstration" - and then threatening passersby who are asking you questions with assault is not peaceful demonstration. If an immigrant laborer got ten percent of the way in "Susan's" face as she and her ilk did in passersby on Saturday, the immigrant likely would be in jail facing charges.

The DA should bring charges.

And what were our sheriffs deputies doing? "Susan" with the pepper spray should have been hauled off right then and there. At the very least, an officer should have taken away her pepper spray to defuse the threat, and gotten her real name and ID.

There is no question in my mind that had a brown-skinned day laborer pulled pepper spray exactly as "Susan" did in this video, she or he would be sitting in jail right now facing felony assault charges.

"Susan" and crew - one question:

WWJD?

"Susan" - wish and you shall receive. Here's a link to a photo showing your compatriot dragging her flag within an inch of the curb:

http://www.ojaivalleynews.com/breakingnews/immigrationprotest.html

Hardly held high and proud there. And your flag is dangerously close to the ground there, no?

We'll keep looking for photographic evidence of what so many saw, namely, YOU dragging YOUR flag on the ground.

As far as your deranged claim that someone jumped from a car and tried to steal your flag (!), well I guess it speaks for itself.

The video of you assaulting the high schooler also speaks for itself, and shows you desperately need help.

They still have mental health programs in jail, if you can't learn to restrain yourself, perhaps Drew will do you a favor and press charges. That way you can be incarcerated where we can only hope you will get some of the help you need. And the public can be protected from an assaultive hate-mongering ADULT who ought to be able to restrain herself from attacking and threatening teenagers.

As far as the complaint goes, I wouldn't want SOS/NMI to burn down my mom as a reprisal.

I'm not the African-American teenager being threatened in the video, but I do sympathize with her. I was threatened by Susan a bit before that, on that day - and her story about my grabbing the flag after running out of a car is completely false. My car key was with family members that day. I came out of a nearby store and saw the protest that way, went to ask Susan questions, she shortly thereafter gaily hoisted her spray at me, after which I nearly tripped running across the street and hoisted an anti-police brutality sign for a bit, contributed to the general noise...I somewhat regret it.

I think this is some sort of standard lie they tell about people who confront them - I've seen them posting something about the African-American girl grabbing a flag, too, on other message boards, which I didn't see anything like that day. It's pretty repugnant of them. Dishonesty never struck me as a terribly American value, all things considered...

Luckily, I think "Susan"'s credibility is pretty much shot around here. I just suggest that the police show up with more than one sheriff next time this crew comes to town, if SOS/NMI make good on their promises to come back. Probably will forego the official complaint for now - unless I start to hear more threats from them.

Drew, see comment #79 on the other thread. Quotes from the SOS/NMI people seem to indicate they came here planning to instigate violence, or "goonage" as they call it.

Backfired in Ojai. I predict they won't be back.

Meanwhile, OVN today reports the city has a $5,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the person who removed the "Early Bird Shopper" to Shelf Road.

I wonder what kind of reward is available for information leading to the arrest of "Susan," or whoever the woman in the video was who assaulted the African American teenager.

I don't like theft of public art. But its more important to protect the safety of our citizens, especially from out of town "goons" coming here to provoke violence, spew hate, and assault teenagers who don't share their skin color.

I think the origin of the flag-stealing story is that for a moment somebody let a flag drape over my eyes, probably on purpose - and I wasn't about to let them take away my vision in a situation that tense. I angrily brushed the flag away, and that was about when I remember Susan grabbing the pepper spray.

I have no interest in their flags. I'll buy or sew one of my own if I want to stroll around in American regalia as something to hide behind (please, God, hopefully not).

I guess that means I "put a finger" on a flag after all - maybe hers - but if she was deliberately trying to take my vision away, I have the right to remove the cloth from my face. I certainly didn't shove my face up in any flag-cloth; it was draped right over my head as I stood there. I wonder if they were planning an attack?

A little history on Evan Austin....

I had the privilege of working with a former Iraqi veteran at a shelter during one of our many fires. She and I discussed many things during the long evening of our watch. When I mentioned how disgusted I was with a vehicle with tally marks of our fallen brave, she said that one day while shopping at Von's she approached the owner of the vehicle (Evan Austin) and said how she did not appreciate his grandstanding using our fallen soldier's and that she and her family members served and were currently serving in Iraq. Evan towering over my petite friend, yelled at her that she and her family were MURDERERS! So much for compassion, eh...Evan!

We need to go back and help the citizen's of Ojai take back their streets, no reference to the legal status of the DL's was addressed and their illegality appears to be perfectly acceptable to SOME of Ojai's liberal bums and elite.

I left a comment and can only hope enough of the innured Ojai Valley Citizen's take heed.

Another tidbit about Evan and his friend, who two years ago became enraged when an Oak View committee placed a flag holder on a building someone in Evan's family owned. The business now defunct was a piano shop. The flag holders along with flags were given and placed free of cost so that Oak View's street's would be lined with Beautiful Old Glory during Holidays. It appears that the Liberal elite are fiercely opposed to any signs of respect to our flag and our Constitutional rights.

How annoying that a pseudonymous commenter with a grudge tries to hack away at evan's reputation. I consider evan a good friend and ally who conducts himself with integrity. As head of the Ojai Peace Coalition, evan does not "tower" over others yelling at them, calling them "murderers".

evan also doesn't become "enraged", and the business is not defunct, it is still in operation.

As far as being "elite," evan, his wife and daughter live in a quite modest apartment, live simply and consciously of the environment, and are some of the most pleasant and community-oriented people I've ever had the opportunity to know.

Another post like this, and you will be banned, with your IP recorded for potential slander allegations.

many people claim to know me...i've received dozens of free personality profiles by people who react to the message on my car (what that has to do with illegal immigration, i'm frankly unsure). some, like Tyler, really do know me. others, it seems, are content to tell themselves very colorful stories and then accept them as truth. here are some facts:

she said that one day while shopping at Von's she approached the owner of the vehicle
to my recollection i have never been confronted at Vons, where i very rarely shop. i do recall being approached a couple of years ago by a very angry woman at Starr Market, which i believe is the encounter to which this is referring.

Evan towering over my petite friend, yelled at her that she and her family were MURDERERS!
at 5'10", i don't typically "tower" over anyone, and i certainly am not in the habit of yelling at people in supermarkets, nor of handing out hurtful labels. from my recollection of this encounter, the woman was very upset and i was frankly so shocked at her outburst that i literally did not say one word in response. i believe she, in disgust, called me a "pig".

Evan and his friend, who two years ago became enraged when an Oak View committee placed a flag holder on a building someone in Evan's family owned. The business now defunct was a piano shop.
The currently operating piano shop is owned by my father-in-law, and the building is rented. Up until a couple of years ago the shop seemed to be the only building in Oak View without a flag holder, which left it conspicuously flag-less on holidays. at the request of my father-in-law, the owner of the Shell station across the street contacted the persons responsible for installing and servicing the flag holders, and there is now one affixed to the building.

It appears that the Liberal elite are fiercely opposed to any signs of respect to our flag and our Constitutional rights.
as Tyler adequately pointed out, i am not part of anything "elite" (except for being a white American male). further, my and my colleagues' respect for our flag was on full display at the recent Not One More! event held in Libbey Park, where we constructed a working flagpole and flew our national colors at half-staff in mourning for the American troops killed in Iraq -- a wholly appropriate use of the flag, and with proper ceremonies performed by local Boy Scouts. As for Constitutional rights, i presume that those would include the very same Free Speech that we're both using right now.

i appreciate the opportunity to respond, and am grateful to Tyler for his firm and accurate defense.

I think that if you cannot engage as human adults in a dialogue about critical issues with the respect and civility in this forum, then you're just basically dishonest, bankrupt of any real intelligence, and seems to be sadly frightened animals.

Was I being threatened with libel and blog banning for having an opinion? Am I missing something here?
I hope I was being threatened because of that post. I personally didn't see anything wrong with it. The post made some sense but also sounded like it was written by someone with personal experience with Evan.
If we're all only to have ONE EVAN/TYLER opinion, maybe it should be posted somewhere so no one gets banned. It might make things easier. It might make a pretty boring site, too!

This site is a freaking joke anyway. NO loss really. The admins here are no different than at any other website. They're biased bullies, arrogant egotistist and petty power-tripping pseudo liberals not interested in Free Speech of all citizens, PRO & CON. Not hardly the American way isn't it? When someone comes to them with the opposing facts they automatically take an opposing viewpoint and stick to the posters regardless of the evidence and points presented to them. When any Adms logic fails; threaten, still threaten and more threatening of the poster for their opinion voiced.

My warning was because you were violating the terms of use as posted below. Trying to frame evan as angry, yelling and enraged is defamatory and not treating him with civility and respect, per the terms of use. Regardless, I left it up and addressed it directly, as did evan.

Sure is funny (ironic?) reading all these comments complaining I don't allow Free Speech.

Love,
The Admin

I Know Evan A:
i presume that since your attention is now turned to Tyler and his proposed ban for not following the posted conduct rules of this forum that you are not challenging my corrections of your story. i feel good about that, because it indicates that they've been accepted as the first-hand truth that they are.

however, i'm quite turned off by the nearly incomprehensible strings of labels that you're so freely handing out, and frankly your last line doesn't make any sense to me at all. i invite you to calm down, read the conduct guidelines again, and engage.

perhaps you and i should have coffee sometime, because your chosen handle is clearly erroneous, and i could probably learn something from you.

call me: 805-746-3750

Sorry, I DO NOT accept your explanation of what I KNOW truthfully occured. But keep trying to fool others here. Nice try.

On related topic:
QUOTE: "that you are not challenging my corrections of your story. i feel good about that, because it indicates that they've been accepted as the first-hand truth that they are.UNQUOTE
Putting these words in my mouth and putting up this sad 'smoke screen' onto other issues is also "basically dishonest, bankrupt of any real intelligence".

I will say "Hi" next time I see you at Ojai Vons.

Sheesh, I guess the anonymous commenter with a grudge who happens to know some other anonymous resident, who perhaps confronted evan and supposedly was towered over and yelled at and called a murderer wins. Whatever.

haha, great summary, Tyler!

really...you KNOW this truthfully occurred, because you heard it from a woman whom you'd just met, and a few years ago at that? i daresay i have pretty good credit here (and elsewhere, for that matter), so i'm none too worried that anyone will think i'm trying to pull off some mass fooling.

please do say HI. Peace is about resolving conflicts nonviolently and creating community, and i'm about Peace.

and i'll try not to yell.

evan, for what it's worth, I have to chime in that, witnessing how you’ve conducted yourself over the year or so that I’ve read the Ojai Post, I wholeheartedly believe your version of this episode. You’ve had more than your share of reason and opportunity to lash out at people here, and not having done so (indeed, you’ve been more restrained and balanced than most) – I don’t see how it would be your style to go ballistic in a parking lot – even to someone with such an obvious lack of decorum and humanity. She really called you “a pig”?!? Wow!

Dear evan,

We wholeheartedly agree with LTOR.

You probably already know this, but to be called a pig is not really an insult. Every one who meets us soon sees that we are intelligent and adorable, just like you!

With love and appreciation,

Rosie and Tillie,
Ojai Spokespigs

http://www.ojaipost.com/2008/02/_meet_rosie_and_tillie_ojais_f.shtml

OK - the third time hopefully will be the charm. I've been blocked twice and I can only assume it's because I copied and pasted a quote from a commenter above.

Let me try again:

Has anyone else made the connection that "I Know Evan A." = seenitall? (Who else types out the words "Quote" and "Unquote"?)

To see how disturbed this commenter is just scroll up and read comment #15 (and other vitriolic comments).

So, y'all - consider the source and just ignore this little out-of-town troll who obviously has a demented mind, an overwhelming and desperate need for on-line attention, and a VERY unnatural fixation on our very own evan austin.

I have noticed Evan put out his piano sale sign again and his neon open sign. Maybe people gave him a little bit of free Internet advertising through this illegal alien matter.

You (Evan, Tyler and other name calling trolls) can fool some of the people all of the time
And you can fool all of the people some of the time
But most of the time they'll just make fools of themselves,
and save you the trouble "Some of US learn from other peoples' mistakes. The rest of YOU happen to be the other people".

Righteous Anonymity! You Go, Girl.

LOL: no one is laughing. perhaps tyler can shed some light and let us know if this jerk is the same one, with the same IP address, that keeps playing that same old tired broken record over and over. I've met evan, he hasn't, he's just a hater with a hateful agenda and an insatiable thirst for cramming it down our throats. there is a place for dissenting opinions here, but there is no place for foul liars like him.

wow, so much action on a thread that's off the front page!

thanks for your support, friends (both two- and four-legged!) i wasn't ever worried about my reputation or credibility being seriously damaged, but it's still great to have such community with you all.

Comment #58:
I have noticed Evan put out his piano sale sign again and his neon open sign. Maybe people gave him a little bit of free Internet advertising through this illegal alien matter.
1. it's not MY piano shop, although i work there and have an interest in its promotion and success.
2. the "pianos for sale" sign and the "open" sign have been up for a very long time. you're not sharing a new development of anything (and what's your point?)
3. the piano shop was not even mentioned until "I Know Evan A."'s recent remarks, so there's no connection to illegal immigration and free advertising...please stop trying to force one. (after all, you mentioned the shop and the fact that it's open too!)

I am anonymous! I am all powerful! I can say whatever I want without fear of repercussion! I am the God of all Slander and Veiled Threats! I can....what? You say that there are scripts that can find my IP address even if I'm using a proxy?

Oops.

Never mind.

Evan towering over and yelling at someone. Come on. That's not his MO at all.

Is it just me or does the tone of the "I know Evan" commenter strangely mirror "Susan" from earlier in this thread? "Susan" claimed to live in Oak View where the piano shop that "I know Evan" is so preoccupied is located. Hmmm. One in the same? If I'm not mistaken "Susan" was also the woman brandishing the pepper spray.

If "I know Evan" really is "Susan" than this whole resurgence is just sad.

What is it about illegal that some people just don't get. They seem to thrive on the thought that being liberal is so cool. Today's illegal alien is our modern day slave, and these leftists embrace the whole concept. Shame on you. As this economy continues to sour, and the pain of supporting Mexico's poor, the truth will emerge and all you liberals will be knocked down quite a few notches. I've seen it happen before, and this time it will be a slap in the face to you liberals much harder. The Mexican people need to correct their own country and stop leeching and scavenging off of this one. What is it about illegal that eludes you?

Today's illegal alien is our modern day slave....

And registered Republicans are running the slave market & the sweat shops.

Shame on you.

"And registered Republicans are running the slave market & the sweat shops."

Ooooooutlandish lie..
Got proof?
And what does that have to do with illegal aliens anyway. The Republican Party has a long record of fighting for slaves & legal immigrants and it sponsored the Underground Railroad pre-civil war.

It's actually not a lie at all - here's proof - convicted Registered Republican Jack Abramoff and indicted Registered Republican Congressional Leader Tom Delay were at the heart of lobbying efforts to kill Congressional legislation to promote acceptable human standards of living and working on US Commonwealth island Saipan.

In testimony before the Senate, it was described that 91 percent of the workforce were immigrants, and were being paid barely half the U.S. minimum hourly wage. Stories also emerged of workers forced to live behind barbed wire in squalid shacks without plumbing. A Department of the Interior report found that "Chinese women were subject to forced abortions and that women and children were subject to forced prostitution in the local sex-tourism industry." The Senate passed the Murkowski worker reform bill unanimously.

Among the Registered Republicans involved in the attempt to kill the bill include Tom Delay, John Doolittle, Rep. Ralph Hall, Michael Scanlon and Ralph Reed.

More reading if you are interested...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/

Moved by the sworn testimony of U.S. officials and human-rights advocates that the 91 percent of the workforce who were immigrants -- from China, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh -- were being paid barely half the U.S. minimum hourly wage and were forced to live behind barbed wire in squalid shacks minus plumbing, work 12 hours a day, often seven days a week, without any of the legal protections U.S. workers are guaranteed, Murkowski wrote a bill to extend the protection of U.S. labor and minimum-wage laws to the workers in the U.S. territory of the Northern Marianas.

So compelling was the case for change the Alaska Republican marshaled that in early 2000, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed the Murkowski worker reform bill.

But one man primarily stopped the U.S. House from even considering that worker-reform bill: then-House Republican Whip Tom DeLay.

According to law firm records recently made public, lobbyist Jack Abramoff, paid millions to stop reform and keep the status quo, met personally at least two dozen times with DeLay on the subject in one two-year period. The DeLay staff was often in daily contact with Abramoff.

DeLay traveled with his family and staff over New Year's of 1997 on an Abramoff scholarship endowed by his client, the government of the territory, to the Marianas, where golf and snorkeling were enjoyed.

DeLay fully approved of the working and living conditions. The Texan's salute to the owners and Abramoff's government clients was recorded by ABC-TV News: "You are a shining light for what is happening to the Republican Party, and you represent everything that is good about what we are trying to do in America and leading the world in the free-market system"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/al-meyerhoff/the-law-slaves-and-jack-_b_41185.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4856470.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff_CNMI_scandal
http://www.slate.com/id/2116389/

Ooooooutlandish lie..

Prove it.

Got proof?

Got proof that they aren't?

And what does that have to do with illegal aliens anyway

Guess who, by political affiliation, hires the most illegal aliens so that they won't have to pay a decent wage to Americans?

The Republican Party has a long record of fighting for slaves & legal immigrants and it sponsored the Underground Railroad pre-civil war.

That was the Republican party of yesteryear. The Republican party of today is composed mostly of the same kinds of people who wanted Lincoln dead.

High five to Tyler.

Where the proof of this statement, "convicted (*cheap smear) Registered Republican Jack Abramoff and indicted (*cheap smear) Registered Republican Congressional Leader Tom Delay were at the heart of lobbying efforts to kill Congressional legislation to promote acceptable human standards of living and working on US Commonwealth island Saipan.
You didn't supply that specifically.
OOooPPPS.
(** PPPSSTTT- I wonder how many convicted and indicted registered Democrats have supported legislation? Be fair. I can name some, including a past democratic president who was impeached and had his law license banned for criminal activity in Arkansas.)

Where the proof of this statement, "Among the Registered Republicans involved in the attempt to kill the bill include Tom Delay, John Doolittle, Rep. Ralph Hall, Michael Scanlon and Ralph Reed.
You didn't supply that specifically.
OOooPPPS.

[b]Restating your biased opinions without direct proof is still NO proof.[/b]

Also most Internet researchers know that quoting wikipedia, huffington post, CNN and others (as you have) are not proof. Those biased news and radical blog sources are universally known to anti-administration or radically progressive democrat and know as VERY BIASED. (*Would you want me to quote Fox News back to you?) I won't. But you did as (phony-)proof.

There is absolutely not a single person on earth with an intelligence level above a 5 year old that buys that nonsense. If you actually believe all of it I think you only have two choices. return to Indymedia or see a doctor for dilusional episodes. I see you have been schooled by our public school system in faulty logic and broken debate training.

Hi disconnected proof/seenitall/I Know Evan A.

Might I recommend "HTML for Dummies". It's not that hard - really!

"Those biased news and radical blog sources are universally known to anti-administration or radically progressive democrat and know as VERY BIASED."

Come to think of it, a good book on English grammar and structure might not be a bad idea either.

I'm just saying...

"Disconnected proof"?

Get in touch with reality.

Torture. Warrantless wiretapping. Suspension of habeas corpus. Signing statements. Illegal war and occupation. Assassination as policy. Violation of U.N. Charter and multiple treaties, including the Geneva Conventions. Lies over reasons to get into war; lies about warrantless wiretapping ("we only do it with court order"); discussing and approving torture techniques in the White House! Convicted obstructor of justice at highest level of administration. Unprecedented corruption throughout Iraq occupation, including the "disappearance" of over $9 BILLION in CASH. Domestic corruption on scale never seen before (Abramoff, Randy Cunningham just two typical examples). Poisoning of Justice Department with unqualified partisans, who brought baseless criminal indictments for political gain; firing of longstanding civil servants who refused to violate the law; poisoning of our federal courts with partisan activists. Economic incompetence and malfeasance: Collapsing dollar; unprecedented price of oil (during an administration of oilmen, hmm!); greatest transfer of wealth OUT of this country, to the middle east and elsewhere, in history; free ride for corporate fraudsters; more debt than all previous administrations combined; massive pork spending consisting of transfers from taxpayer into corporate contributor wallets, while gutting education, infrastructure, and social safety net; socialism for corporations, with $30 billion unauthorized Wall Street bailout, subsidized low cost credit, and direct taxpayer subsidies to oil companies and others making the largest profits in history.

When you connect with reality, you will recognize that to be Republican today is to be fundamentally anti-American. The Republican agenda for eight years has been to undermine and destroy the economic base in these country, undermine and set aside the Constitution, and undermine and destroy our standing in the world. In a short eight years, Bush and Co. have fundamentally realigned the world, from one in which the U.S. was first among equals and the global leader, to one in which the U.S. is the enemy of the entire world, a force to be contained. We are seeing the result of that today, and will be paying for it for a long time to come.

The evidence of Republican crimes, malfeasance, incompetence, and fundamental hate of what the U.S. stands for already fills several books. To say that "Democrats do it too" is to compare the feces of a single ant to that of an elephant. If you continue to close your eyes to it and spin, there is only one of three explanations: Ignorance, stupidity, or corruption. Which one describes you?

Nice, anonymous #73, now THAT is pinning the tail on the elephant.

It seems some people are easily impressed with silly OFF Topic smoke screen matters and trollish attack persuits here. Too bad.
Nice strawman. Very pretty.
Short, misleading, falsely dismissive, and OFF TOPIC.
I'd give it a 1.
I don't imagine that it's comfortable for you to Internet post, live and think in such terrible jealousy, rage, paranoia, and fear as you're displaying in your posts. I don't mean that as a dig or insult...that's really what anyone read from you. I hope you can find a way to address those unmet needs, perhaps medically.

Hmm. Ignorance AND stupidity. No evidence of corruption. (Though corruption's favorite disguise is ignorance and stupidity, so there you go.)

Hey there, Not Impressed, feeling frustrated and angry? Do you find yourself getting easily irritated? Are you having problems coping? Have you slipped into that old habit of being nasty to those who disagree with you? Do you find youself perfecting the art of projection? I hope that you can learn to live with youself in a more healthy manner. I want to warn you that the answer does not inhabit the bottom of a pill bottle. Nor does the answer occupy the bottom of a can of beer nor the bottom of a bottle of wine. The hard truth is that you can only improve your self thru perfecting the art of self integrity. Good luck and thanks for all the laughs.