ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

Bless you evan for organizing this event!

Suza, bless you for being our first scheduled signer (as a former Ojai Mayoress)!

So does this mean you're going to stop driving your stupid car around?

So Brian,

Does your comment mean that you think the commemoration of the deaths of 3,972 Americans in Iraq is stupid?

I think it is disrespectful to them.

You will find the following text just above the comment area EVERY TIME you type a comment:

"Please treat fellow commenters with civility and respect, as if you were engaging in person. Despite differing opinions, we would all like to see Ojai's character and quality of life preserved and improved for generations to come. We're in this together."

Please don't make it a waste of Tyler's time to have placed it there.

Really Brian! Shouldn't OP authors be held to a higher standard? If you don't agree with evan, fine - how about articulating your argument with a bit more intelligence and decency. Taking a juvenile swipe at something that we all know evan feels very passionate about is something I would expect from one of the "snarky" anonymous commenters, not from a fellow author.

EvAN,
you posties are really lucky Brian indulges you. do you sense a swelling of community support (outside the 7 recurring yay-bob's on this blog...) for any issues you rail...
PS: Really, your car does no service to those who have died...it's actually rather a sad statement on what real pussies the citzenry are/is.

Fred, can you tell the difference between the following two statements?

1. Dumb as a post.
2. Dumb on the Post.

i never intended that this discussion would be about my car, but that's the way it's turned...

fred, you have in one fell swoop proven that you do not care to follow the guidelines of "civility and respect" which are outlined on this site AND were highlighted by me in comment #6. you have not yet proven yourself incapable of engaging in meaningful dialog, and so i feel compelled to respond:

• i DO sense a "swelling of community support" in the hundreds of folks on the Ojai Peace Coalition mailing list, as well as the dozens of individuals and groups to whom we are reaching out to support this action. to expand that, i sense that same support in the strong majority of Americans who oppose this war.

• i think it's important to realize and recognize that you have no authority to claim the truth of anyone's experience other than your own, so it's enough to say that the message on my car doesn't do anything for YOU.

• you're also presuming that the point of MY action is to "do a service" to those who've died. that is not the case, although you may be interested to know about the grateful reactions i've received from a wide variety of persons, including the mother of a soldier.

• i will thank you to cease using sexist language. if i can translate what i think you're trying to say correctly, then i think you think that "the citizenry" (everyone but you?) are weak, cowardly, unable to take action...sans balls, perhaps?

i invite you to continue, and to be more clear if you can. if you cannot, and again violate the community guidelines posted here, i will let your own words stand as the testament to your character and will not be responding to you directly.

I really have no desire to go on about this. It seems that there are so many things with the liberal community's belief system that is simply and completely contrary to what I believe that it is futile to engage any further. I have many liberal friends and I enjoy many of them despite their wrong assumptions of what is real. But on more and more issues that are crucial to our well being there is a divergence that boarders on the insane. I can only liken it to a time in Roman history when the elite became so detached from the functions and the workings of a civlilized society that they no longer could see fantasy from reality (think Hollywood). If there were another sane person on this blog besides myself then maybe I could continue but I can only assume no one has that much patients. All I'm doing now is just pissing everybody off and that is not what I want to do. I have such big problems with almost every single issue the the liberal mindset believes in that I think I will have to leave yourselves to your own devices.

Feeling compelled to weigh in…

evan, you are brave and heroic and those that fight you anonymously with crass insults will never matter (come to think of it, neither will the ones who use their names). As an aside however, and although Suza may not agree, the term “Mayoress” is sexist.

Brian, I have to figure that somewhere in there is an intelligent, passionate, kind person, but I have yet to see any evidence of that. What a shame.

sorry, forgot to put my name, #12 was me...

Hi Lisa, I know we are usually on the same wave-length and evan's intent is NOT to be sexist. I guess a "mayor" can be a man or woman but I thought it was a nice touch to say "Mayoress."

A yogi can be a man or a woman, but a yogini is definitely a female yogi. I would not consider it sexist to use the term "yogini," so I am curious to know why you object to "Mayoress."

PS In my mind, "Mayor" and "Mayoress" are sort of like "Prince" and "Princess"(language wise, ofcourse-- not their actual role in the world!)

Hi again Lisa, for what it's worth, I just had a visitor who reads the Post and he said that you are looking out for my best interest, that "mayor" sounds more dignified than "mayoress."

But after he left I started thinking that the masculine version of a word is more associated with being "top dog"...so...actually...it is a dilemna. From childhood on Kings in fairytales always seemed more powerful than Queens...oh well...

re. #3 comment.

Whether it be Amber jars of Honey on a table outside on a Sunday afternoon where, the sunlight passes through spotless glass, imbuing nature's gift to us, or the Hash Marks upon a little car that has no more room to spare-such despair- that reminds us of nature's gift to us but, taken away forever who, could mock both or but one and stand in the way of the truth of both or but one?

I guess I would contend that yogini is known and perhaps accepted terminology (sort of like waitress, but even that word has essentially been replaced by the gender-neutral "server"), while Mayoress is kind of a made-up word. I didn't say I object (although if asked I likely would), I just said it's a sexist term. And I have no doubt that evan comes at this with the purest of intent. Yes, power and dignity certainly come into play when gender-specific language is used. And, of course, Suza, I'm looking out for you, but did not want to speak for you, which is why I prefaced it by saying you might not agree. :)

excellent exchange, Lisa and Suza! thanks for your contributions...there is truth in everything you're saying (and i am by no means above being called out for things like this, as the record shows!)

i think we can all agree that "Mayoress" and "pussy" are in dramatically different arenas of sexist language.

Dana, you have my deep gratitude for making the connection, and for doing it with poetic imagery. thank you.

Brian, i'm suddenly impressed to realize that you and i are in agreement: that marks on a car and body counts don't paint the whole picture of the sacrifices being made and losses being suffered here. that numbers alone do not accurately portray the (mostly) young lives being snuffed out, nor the ripples of pain that spread from each one...through families and communities, including our own.

it turns out that that's precisely the major goal of this action: to personalize the fallen as real human beings by getting down on our knees in public and writing their names on our ground.

when can i expect you at the park to sign some names?
you can email me privately if you'd rather not sign up publicly here.

I guess this is a commendable effort, but, at risk of belaboring a point raised before and never really addressed... why is it the U.S. soldiers' lives that matter?

Seems to me the ones to commemorate are:

a) the soldiers who refused to serve in this illegal and unjust war;
b) the soldiers and officers who have condemned this illegal and unjust war;
c) the (few) politicans who have actually stood up against this illegal war;
d) the protesters who have stood against this war with direct actions; and, finally and most importantly;
e) the IRAQIs who have been killed as a result of this war, whether at the hands of our soldiers, or at the hands of others whose crimes, as we know from Nuremberg, are the responsibility of the perpetrators of this illegal and unjust war.

Our soldiers occupying Iraq are not heroes. Far from it. And while it is sad that we have lost so many, there is something sort of sick about commemorating them when, for each of their lives lost, they and their comrades are responsible for the deaths of ten or twenty times as many truly innocent people, guilty of nothing except trying to live in their own homes and country.

Just thinking out loud about this, so to speak: The OPC feels frustration at the failure of its actions and tactics to bring the troops home. Perhaps the reason these tactics fail is that rather than draw the contrast, and create teaching moments, they have sought to bridge the gap, find common ground, and avoid confrontation.

Thus, peace activists spend their energy lamenting the needless deaths of our troops. This is something even the warmongers can join in.

But its not something that brings change, because the warmongers lament the deaths of our troops and use that as a reason for the "surge." And because peace activists have essentially gone along with it, by defining the main problem with the war as the loss of our troops, members of Congress and others do too. Since the main problem with the war becomes the loss of our troops, waste of money, etc., there is no discussion and no engagement with the idea that the war itself is wrong and should stop.

This is finding common ground at the expense of change.

Why not try something new?

Here's my suggestion: Instead of writing the names of fallen U.S. soldiers, let's bring the war a little closer to home. How about writing the names of actively serving soldiers from Ojai and Ventura, and then beside them, write the names of ten or twenty dead Iraqis (whatever proportional number is attributable to each servicemember)? Then people could each research the lives and circumstances of one of these deaths - a family bombed in their sleep, a father rendered destitute by this war and occupation, killed by a U.S. sniper as he goes to look at some "bait" left there to attract civilians into the open to be shot - and present those stories, taking ownership over those stories.

Connect these stories to the stories of our own hometown soldiers who are committing or contributing to these horrific acts.

You will be certain to make people start to think a little bit.

The psycho warmongerers might get a little loud and confrontational. But the soldiers themselves are going to start to think what their hearts are already telling them - this is not what they signed up for.

Consider also that this approach would be a little closer to the reality of what is happening. We are still dealing with the fallout from Vietnam, where all our soldiers - many permanently damaged goods, rendered homeless and committing suicide ten and twenty years later - have never faced a society ready to come to terms with what they know they actually did there. These soldiers have had to hold their own actions close in, as memories they cannot escape, and there is no public narrative they can join to exorcise the horror.

Let's help our own local soldiers make their narrative public, by tying them to their actions, and telling the whole story. Not of a "terrorist" who they sniped or bombed, but of a real person, probably with a real family, trying to live and feed their family under a brutal foreign occupation - killed, by our soldiers, for what?

This kind of statement, by the way, is exactly the problem (from evan's main PR above):

"So the group has decided to move forward with an event to honor each and every person who has died In Iraq by creating a living memorial at the fountain in Ojai’s Libbey Park on Friday, March 14th to Sunday, March 16th. During that weekend members of the community will be offered the opportunity to write the names of each Solider who has lost their life in the Iraq war in chalk, on the sidewalk."

"Each and every person who has died in Iraq" is NOT "each Soldier who has lost their life." Somewhere between 20 and 200 Iraqis die for each one of our soldiers, depending on which numbers you accept.

As long as it is acceptable to place no value at all on the lives of the Iraqi people, who are the true innocent victims in this brutal occupation, it is certain that there will be no meaningful change.

such intelligence and strength of opinion, and such little action!

the realities of the courage of those who resist the war machine AND the gross discrepancy in the number of American versus Iraqi lives taken are not lost on me at all.
build the events and memorials you're talking about - or help me to - and i'll be there with all the energy i'm putting into this one.

call me.

Some logistical data that supports keeping the memorial focus narrow:

* there have been 250 TIMES more Iraqis killed than Americans. (4,000 x 250 = 1 Million)

* to write one million names in three days would mean writing 333,333 names per day, or 13,888 names per hour, or 231 names per minute.

* OR, if we can realistically do 1,333 names per day, it would take 750 days to write one million names, which is approximately 2 years.

* if we fit 4,000 names into one football field, then one million names would take up over .51 square miles, or 1/8 the size of the City of Ojai.

we will have some comparative imagery present if we can, and we will certainly dedicate our candlelight vigil (Sunday evening from 6-7pm) to the enormous loss that is logistically impossible to represent and very nearly psychologically impossible to fully comprehend. Please join us, and make of it what you will.

This action alone - like any of our other actions and like any other single action taken by anyone, anywhere - will not stop the war. Nor is it designed to, expected to, or fantasized to. i believe that the sum total of ALL of our actions toward Peace, however, WILL. This is meant to be a humanizing action, a community-building action, and one more to add to the wave that is swelling toward justice.

wvan,
Is it true Ojai VFW 32 is planning to hose off chalk and YOU on 3/14??

Dear Ojai Gables Gal. Thanks so much for your concerns. As the person who reached out to both of our local Veterans Groups, the VFW and the American Legion, on behalf of Not One More!, I can assure you these groups have the utmost respect for our fallen soldiers and the integrity to never commit such a reprehensible act against their fellow soldiers.