ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/1763452/posts?page=1

Please... one man's life was in the spotlight, the other fairly anonymous. No one would argue that either loss was more tragic and untimely than the other. It's a simple equation...

thank you, William; you prove my point. A person whose job it is to kill and die in my name, to protect my freedom to be distracted by glittery people in spotlights, is "fairly anonymous". i have a problem with that.

i AM arguing that Sturdivant's death was less tragic and untimely to our society, because we've created a class of citizens whose job is to die. we're "shocked", but we kind of expect it.

[two points of clarity: 1) the photograph in the header is not of soldier Michael Sturdivant; it's an anonymous photo pulled from the Web. 2) the cynical tone and particular goals of this article leave out that there ARE plenty of valiant and honorable soldiers whose service originates from a genuine desire to help. there are ALSO plenty of valiant and honorable Conscientious Objectors who have drawn their lives into harmony with their values by refusing to participate in war.]

Get a life

"Get a life" sounds like a knee-jerk reaction from someone who finds this conversation uncomfortable, someone who is happy to shut their eyes and ears to the horrors and realities of war, perhaps while they play Call of Duty on the X-Box.

Keep it up, evan, the world needs more people who have opened to the possibility of what humankind can be.

The question I pose is not ones death more important than another,but it is the question of how we value these individuals lives.Why is an actor so important and well paid when a soldiers job seems infinetly more important and dangerous?I know the answer is easy but it shouldn t be.No offense but most actors and movies are pointless save the few thought provoking works done sporaddically by some and the brief break they give us from reallity.This permeates our society,a proffessional athletes salary exceeds a school teachers by astronomical porpotions,and if it came down to it I think most people would agree that teaching is more important than watching kobe slam dunk on t.v.Why the disparity?Our country is one of such great wealth and oppurtunity it seems a shame to think of the people that really matter;teachers,police, firemen,soldiers etc as middle to lower class income and citezens.I have no immediate answers except maybe what the country needs is a good depression.I know it sounds crazy but I think it would put things in perspective.What if you had to grow food instead of flowers or buying it?What if an education was a true luxury and teachers were truly valued?It seems that it takes catastrphe for most of us to act but our country is a machine and recoups easily.Oh yeah and since I am the Susio,Most actors are useless turds anyway...

I totally sympathize with the overall drift of your argument, Evan, and for that reason it pains me to see what appears to be a fallacy in your logic.

Let's test your theory by a thought experiment. If Heath Ledger had gone to war in Iraq and died from a roadside bomb, do you think his death would have received any less attention that it did? I doubt it -- probably it would have been covered as much or more.

If Michael R. Sturdivant had died alone and naked in an apartment in New York City surrounded by prescription pills, do you think his death would have received any more attention than it did? I doubt that too -- probably even less.

So as good as your overall argument may be, it does not seem well-served by comparing the relative amounts of attention given to these two unfortunate deaths.

insightful comments, all! (with the exception of #4)
thank you for reading and responding!

david, i sincerely appreciate you challenging my logic. i sense that really shatter-proof logic is not a strength of mine, so i value your input. however (or perhaps this is exactly the point), i don't really follow your experiment. it SEEMS like you're saying that Heath would have received mega-coverage no matter where/how he died, because he's a high-profile figure. likewise, Michael's death would have been just as low-profile had it been under different circumstances because Michael himself was low-profile.

if that's the case, i don't think it refutes my point: why are we sending anonymous, low-profile soldiers to do this work that we're told is the single most important job that anyone can ever have? why don't we know who they are? why aren't we MAKING them high-profile? anonymity is the first death-blow to accountability.

Evan wrote:

"i believe that people who are well-educated, healthy, and empowered in a democracy often gravitate toward Peace."

actually, just the opposite, my much-beloved (and young) brother Evan.

the only purpose of 'freedom' and 'democracy' in our world was (and is) to create a universal soldiery of fearful, ignorant, hate-filled, combative, violent (and willing!) serfs.

slaves and body-parts ... for the soul-less corporate machine.

the process, intention and design of education, media, church, government ....

Evan, I completely agree with you. While I absolutely disagree with our military action in Iraq and have from day one, I don't understand why "Supporting our troops" doesn't involve knowing who they are, paying them fair wages, or taking care of them when they return. I don't see us, as a nation, truly valuing these individual contributions. I see us valuing the ideals but not the actors involved.

There are lots of studies popping up lately that show that we can understand and sympathize with one individual but we can't grok groups. For example, one child we see in our local schools who clearly doesn't get enough to eat can get us thinking and contributing. Entire nations in famine seem remote and we, statistically, contribute less money and time to such "causes."

If we knew who our soldiers were, would we be willing to let them die? Would we even be willing to let them go, knowing that many of them will have terrible difficulties re-integrating into our society when they return?

Evan -- this is the part of your argument that I am questioning:

"i believe that Mr. Ledger's tragedy is so because it was UNEXPECTED. The difference for Mr. Sturdivant is that death is one of the accepted risks of his job. Rarely mentioned or stated explicitly, to be killed is one of the things a soldier - and those who send him or her into battle - can EXPECT. Soldiers are made to die, and war was made to kill them."

I think the thought experiment shows that Ledger's death would have gotten huge attention whether it was expected or not.... and Sturdivant the other way around.

I accept (as i tried to indicate) your larger point about the overall inequities in the situation.

Excellent point David. Remember when Cary Grant died-it wasn't a surpise nor untimely but, it sure got a great amount of press?

We love are favourite stars and when something happens to them, timely or not, expected or not, we are quite interested and at times take it personal.

-------------------

The other day I landed on a site that showed a "Whose Who" list of draft deferments during American agression in Vietnam. Many current politicians are on the list. Had they died then supporting the War, it would have been "hohum" to most people yet, now if Cheney, Clinton, and many others were to die, be murdered or acidentally shoot someone else, we would have to hear about it for weeks. But those same people are the one's sending low profiles to war so america can maintain a high profile, and when these misguided one's die, our celebrated polititians who saw it fit to defir their services, really don't give a Rats Ass as to the calamity to befall the families of those who did choose to serve.

Thanks, evan, for raising some really important questions!

On the other hand.......... from a poetic standpoint, rather than a strictly logical one...... you do make an interesting juxtaposition of images......

and so... all in all... i say, Good point!

Dana: Please post the link to the "site that showed a "Whose Who" list of draft deferments during American agression in Vietnam." I'm curious.

Thanks, Evan, for starting the discussion. I heartily agree with your point.

Heather: Well said! It seems to me that the worship of celebrity is an unconscious attempt to personally connect while living with social disconnectedness.

Montel hits the nail on the head on FOX News.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/31/23326/1083/699/446791

Below are three sites: The first is the "Whose Who" of draft deferments during Vietnam.
The second is focussed on Rush -to the medicine cabinet- Limbaugh's several deferments.
The third is a mix of who served in the military period and those with deferments.

www. nndbdotcom/event/806/000140386/

www. snopesdotcom/military/limbaugh.asp

www. awolbushdotcom/whoserved.html

Ledger vs. Sturdivant ?

This is not Celebrity Death Match!

I don’t understand why these two men have been compared on several websites. This reeks of 1997 when Mother Teresa and Princess Di both passed on. People do not need to be compared in these situations. It is quite disrespectful to both parties. This is nothing like an opportunity to compare Hitler to Gandhi in order to educate and grow as a race of intelligent beings. Remember, even these two men had those that loved them and those that thought them evil. Perhaps our views and priorities as individuals and a nation are far from where they should be. Can’t we discuss these issues in a positive way, without speaking ill of the dead?

I did not know Mr. Ledger, but I did know and enjoy his work. Having worked on several “feature films”, his talent is of the sort that a person would want to work with him. It does not matter what the actor is like off set. While there may be ego of some form involved, the magic on set is always a rewarding experience. Not having known this man, I am not in a position to make any comments about his character as a human being. However, this does not take away from the tragedy of whatever he must have been going through or the abrupt ending of his life.

While I did not know Heath, I did know Michael Sturdivant. I was blessed with the honor and the privilege of watching Michael grow from a boy into a man, by working with him through the Boy Scouts. He always strove to live up to the Scout Oath and Law, and he was very successful in this endeavor. He definitely would not have approved of these comparisons. His thoughts and actions would have been to pray for the comfort of their survivors, grieve for both losses and if anything, look only for the positive to be compared between the two individuals.

Being of a mindset that detests this war and the priorities of our nation and its masses, I find myself in the middle of the road when I read such articles. I disagree with war yet I support our men and women caught up in the conflict. While I love the motion picture industry, there is far too much negativity within it to even begin listing.

I am thankful for those of you placing Michael as a man of HERO status, but what is a hero? Heath Ledger is likely a hero to many as well. The truth of it is we are ALL heroes to someone and we all have our heroes. At the boy scout camp Michael and I worked at we were constantly told to be mindful of our words and actions because some little scout would be listening and watching. At fifteen years it is hard to imagine that a camper really would look upon you as their hero. However, Michael did not take this lightly. He understood his position as a role model and took it seriously. I, on the other hand, was not as quick to catch on. Having forgotten the impact that staff members had on me as a camper, I couldn’t possibly be a hero to a young child.

Two summers ago Michael came back to camp to visit those of us still around. It was this visit that made me realize that one of “my boys” was now a man. It was also through this encounter that he confessed that during his years as a camper and a young staff member, I was one of his heroes. This was just weeks before he shipped out. During our time together, we talked about the war, his part in it and how differently we both felt about the issue. Differences of opinion, however, were not important to Michael. Love was. Unlike most, Michael not only knew what he was against, he knew what he stood for. Regardless of our differences, this was the moment I knew that HE was one of MY heroes.

Focus on the beauty.
Love… Forgive…Accept…Grow…
How will they speak of us when we die? We all do…die…speak…die…speak…
Ultimately folks, we are all in it together, you and I, Michael and Heath.

Maybe those last three words of the previous sentence would make a better article.

Michael and Heath
Men who touched the lives of many

Is that new David?

Is this a new "New David"?

I know it's not david who writes Political Commentary...

I am sincerely inquiring...please don't give an evasive answer.

I would also like to know if there is a third David writing here.

David (comment #18):

you have my very sincere gratitude for investing the time and very intelligent energy to post here and share your thoughts and personal experiences with Michael.

i invite you to stick around...i and others will be writing about topics and issues like this fairly often, and i think you may find very valid and thoughtful ways to contribute, even if you're not a member of our geographic community. you can tell that we have few Davids, so it might help to identify a little more clearly or choose a handle.

again, you have my thanks.

Hello I was searching for Shareen Torres. When it led me to your thoughts on Memorial Day 2006. I was struck by your last coment of being afraid to talk to veterans. I am a veteran. "We were made to die" maybe that is what keeps us apart why so many veterans suicide within 10yrs of discharge from the military. maybe if we talked about it whithout fear of judgement. maybe healing would take place
I think all veterans come home wounded if not in body in our souls. Listen to Shareen Torres CD Shareen sings for vietnam vets "To Angel Fire and Back". I'm looking for her again to order another CD to give to a friend.
Dona nobis Pacem
Bruce