ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

I'm sorry but trying to screw an individual business and all the people and families that make up that business makes me very angry. Not only the people involved in this screw job are affecting the families of the truckers and others, they are also crippling the the infastructure that makes up a part of our economy. This aggregate rock is used in a variety of construction applications.
http://nationalatlas.gov/articles/geology/a_aggregates.html
Instead of trying to screw hard working families over why don't we embrace a natural resourse that we have right here in the mountains behind us. Honestly, I don't know for the life of me how these opponents can dream up all these supposed detrimental environmental impacts of these trucks hauling rock down a hill. Hauling rock is not a very profitable venture in the first place, in fact it is probably the lowest value cargo there is, and on top of that you have this aggravation from a bunch of jerks who could care less about someone elses livleyhood. "No one is to take, on account of a debt, the stones with which grain is crushed: for in doing so he takes a man's living."( Deuteronomy 24:6)
Just as I thought, this post was deleted by stop the trucks author.

Brian,
Stop the Trucks is not called Stop the Gravel. To define the issue as taking food from someone’s mouth (or as you out it: "screw hard working families over") is a straw man argument. The concern is that the trucks are detrimental to the safety and quality of life in this community.
Look at it this way. The truckers who you champion will make more money hauling around the longer way. The short route does not benefit them. It is also more dangerous for them. The straight and flat run out Hwy 166 is easier on the truck, easier on the driver, and easier on the quality of life in this community.Win/win.

I liked your picture: beautiful..serene. How about an oil well in that picture? That would create jobs. Maybe a barge harvesting rocks from that cliff would bring home the groceries for a few people.

Obviously they need to bring the gravel down this way or this would not be an issue in the first place. How in the hell are they going to make more money if they have to drive a further distance and use more fuel doing so ! As far and drilling off shore, we already do that out in the Santa Barbara Channel and it is not a problem. Everyplace in this world is special and has it's own beauty not just Ojai.

no Brian- Ojai is SUPER special.
Ask any astrologer, transcendentalist (they do cosmic root canals) or realtor.

I believe we are now into phase two of the Clintons' policy of scorched-earth destruction of Barack Obama. The polls have Obama well ahead in the South Carolina primary on Saturday, but the combined assaults of Bill and Hill on Barack can be expected to put a dent in his lead. So South Carolina will probably be more like a tie or a narrow win for Obama.

After that it will be ten days until Super Tuesday, when 22 states have their primaries, including California. During those ten days we can expect to see phase three, when the Clintons' ambition propels them to new levels of character destruction.

If the contest remains undecided after Super Tuesday.... well...... then comes phase four.

Actually, I'm sort of with you on this truck thing. It worries me that we are not taking the livelihoods of these independent truck drivers into account. I've posted these concerns in the past, I guess before everybody started censoring comments on the post. However, I place the blame squarely on the mine owners.

The reason the truckers feel they should brave HWY 33 and often HWY 150 right through downtown to get out to the 126 and points East and South is because they are paid for speed and loads rather than by the mile. Also, extractive businesses like mines realized they could make even more money by doing away with their unionized trucking fleets and by only hiring independent contractors. The mine owners found they didn't have to pay any benefits. They didn't have to be bothered by unions seeking fair wages. The mine owners found that they could simply wash their hands of the whole transportation of their product side of the equation and simply pay a flat rate per load thereby absolving themselves of any safety concerns not to mention governmental regulation. Now the mine owners claim they have no say in which way these independent contractors drive or how fast or how recklessly.

Once again business has been allowed to remove all governors on the engine of commerce in the name of profit to the detriment of both the truckers and the community.

I to am a little disgusted by the Clinton's behavior in the campaign of late. South Carolina may go to Obama, especially thanks to Bill Clinton's behavior. His falling asleep on camera throughout the MLK celebration in Harlem was the perfect counterpoint to Obama's inspiring speech at King's church in Georgia. That kind of feigned attention on MLK won't serve Hillary well in South Carolina. Of course, the best thing about all this is that California's vote on Feb. 5th will count more than ever. Ignore the media and vote for your candidate. Just as an example, if Kucinich won California, he'd have delegates than all the candidates combined to date.

I don't think they are asking to come through the arcade area of Ojai on 150, just down 33 to the 101.
Reckless driving and truck safety is a seperate issue that the CHP deals with, those laws already exist and just need to be enforced. The mine owners shouldn't have to be responsible for the drivers of the trucks, they are seperate companies and I don't see it as being a detriment to the community. It would be helping Ventura county as a whole.

Yes Brian. Exactly. That would be the mine owner's argument.

Holy crap - I can't believe Bill Clinton was falling asleep during the MLK event. I haven't seen anything about this in the mainstream media...

Hey, maybe he had a dream

Well, if anyone were still thinking of voting for Hillary Clinton come Feb. 5th, you should take a look at this diary by David Sirota on Dkos. I reccomend his book, Hostile Takeover, if you want to see what's really wrong with the American political system.

If I didn't know this, and I should have, there's a good chance many others are not aware that Hillary Clinton the corporate lawyer was actually on the board of WalMart.

All the blow-by-blow coverage on the Democratic side of the Presidential primaries is obscuring where all the fun this year really is: In the Republican camp.

Freed of any real hope of victory, the Republican candidates have decided to take it easy and use the primaries as an opportunity to spend some other peoples' money, visit some new places, and try out some different personas. The result has been entertainment that beats any episode of "Celebrity Apprentice".

Witness, for example, Mitt Romney's "John Edwards" act. Railing for "change", "fixing the broken system in Washington", "holding the corporations accountable", all have been solid knee slappers among the Republican field. The image of the ultimate "Max-Headroom" technocrat “taking on Washington” is one that puts his whole campaign in stitches.

Rudy Giuliani has been after a few yuks himself. His sense of humor has been a bit drier, however. In a play on 2000, he thought it would be funny to just announce that the voters in 49 states don't matter: "Its all about Florida." Chuckle chuckle. (To help Rudy bring the punchline home, all three other leading Repugnican candidates have joined Rudy to make their campaigns "all about Florida.")

John McCain has been having a harder time, alternating between pretending to be serious and going for big laughs. The plummeting economy gave him an opening the other day. "I'll fix this - with tax cuts!" he said, to guffaws among the Republican cognoscenti.

Huckabee took the fun one step further. Looking at the imploding economy, he invoked the memory of the last two-term Republican to bring America to its knees. "Mike Huckabee is the new Reagan!" proclaimed his campaign manager, Reagan veteran Ed Rollins. Even Huckabee chuckled at that, remembering the grim days of Ronald Reagan. "Haw haw!," he chuckled. "You know, people are going to be remembering the Reagan years like they were good before this Bush thing is done. Homelessness? Layoffs? Corporate sellouts? Union-busting? Deficits? Stock market crashes? Savings and Loan thievery? If you liked Reagan, just wait for what is still to come from Bush!”

But beneath all the laughs lies a serious debate going to the heart of the Republicans' future as a political party. It is now agreed among all top GOP strategists that, after eight years of the Bush disaster, after the flailing Bush I, and after the horrible Reagan years that gave the nation the first taste of what a Republican Presidency stands for, the ranks of Republican voters today consist only of three types: The ignorant, the stupid, and the corrupt.

The corrupt are a reliable vote base for the GOP, and not presently in contention. Instead, GOP worries today focus on the ignorant and the stupid. (GOP strategists all agree that "No Child Left Behind", despite early signs that it is working to swell the ranks of the ignorant, and encourage the development of stupidity in those prone to it, is a program whose days likely are numbered.)

But the harsh reality for the GOP today is that after eight years of Bush II, the threshold for the level of stupidity required to remain a loyal Republican voter has dropped dramatically. Explained Giuliani: "In 2000, you didn’t have to be that stupid to vote Republican. Eight years of Clinton had made things seem pretty good, and Republicans could promise to be just like Clinton, without the intern. Today, however, all that has changed. If you can add 2+2, you probably have too much in the smarts department to vote Republican."

Romney echoes these thoughts. "We just can't rely on the stupid, because its true, we are shrinking their ranks when we require people to be THAT damn stupid in order to support us."

Ignorance remains the bright hope of the Republicans. Thus, behind the cheery jokes, there is an effort to test the levels of ignorance among voters. Do voters get that it’s a gallows joke when candidates promise more tax cuts to respond to the flailing economy? When Reagan is invoked, do voters respond as if the Reagan years were something anyone would want to revisit? And, when “its all Florida,” are voters repelled, or do they indicate a willingness once again to stand by and let a Republican who loses the vote nevertheless take the Presidency?

Stay tuned.

Let's try to stay on the subject at hand, which is the Stop the Trucks screw job by Howard Smith. What business will be next? How about those high cholesterol doughnut shops that are in Ojai? Too much transfat, let's shut them down! I've seen some other trucks coming into Ojai also, Ojai lumber is getting way too many deliveries I think, let's shut them down also!

To call out Howard in the way you did, Brian, is totally inappropriate and disrepectful. The Stop The Trucks coalition has has more collective agency, business and NGO support and collaboration than I've ever seen in Ojai. Everyone is on board - the City, the Chamber, the County, the school district, the Green Coalition, the community.

No one, save a few holdouts such as yourself and WN, wants 600 additional daily gravel truck trips through the valley, pouring pollution into our skies, particulate into our watershed and endangering drivers on the main highway and up into the mountains, with absolutely ZERO financial benefit to our community.

Howard hasn't called you out by name, and my opinion is that you should be a lot more respectful to a fellow author and member of this community, when the only injustice he's perpetrated is moderating his own thread. You do a disservice to your own "argument" on the issue, and I think you owe him an apology.

Tyler,

I admire the stop the trucks coalition and Howard's dogged energy. Brian is wrong as usual, but also somewhat right for the wrong reasons. The trucks issue has a whiff of NIMBYism to it that can irk a lot of people. Don't get me wrong, I do not want 600 gravel trucks flying through our town. But, there is a systemic problem here that cannot be fixed simply by stomping on these independent truckers. We can block them from coming through, but that will not deal with the wider economic problem.

That said, I cannot countenance censorship. What you call moderating is censorship. Distressingly, Brian's is not the first incident of censorship I've heard about on the post today. Someone I know(not me) told me they tried to post something on the Sespe article, and it was not allowed on. This person is extremely knowledgeable about the back country and would have a lot to say about it, but they weren't allowed to post their comment. What's going on here?

Brian: I know that a) you're an author here because apparently Tyler likes you and because you offer a different point of view and that b) I'm nobody and I'm not signing even my 'nym anymore after the CEJ/JAA debacle, but sometimes you act as if it's all you can do to breath the same air as the rest of the people here.

It seems that you really dislike anyone who's even slightly to the left of you, and that you cannot be bothered to look at things the way others look at them for even one second. I can put myself in your shoes, opinion-wise, and have. It doesn't kill me to do it, either. Why don't you try it sometime? What do you have to lose?

..breathE the same air....

I think, Brian, when you use words like, "screw" and "jerks" your point is lost.

Sean -

I don't know anything about the Sespe article, and don't see anything being held in the comments. That person should get in touch with me, or resubmit. I have modified the comments process such that people are notified that if a comment is being held, it might be because they used a keyword in the spam filter or included too many outgoing links, and that they should email me to check it out.

As far as "moderation" or "censorship", I've been consistent on the issue - authors are allowed to moderate (or censor) their own threads. That's not my personal preference or philosophy, and I don't do it on my threads unless the person has been banned with fair warning. That's a legitimate issue to bring up, but can be done so respectfully on an Open Thread like this, and without the name-calling.

And anonymous, yes, I do like Brian and I buy honey from him. I'm amazed at how many issues we disagree on, but that's OK and I'm fine with that interpersonally and on The Ojai Post. I just felt his comment was way too personal, and called him on it. As far as his opinion in support of gravel trucks, he is of course entitled to it.

I do like Brian and I buy honey from him.

I buy his honey, too. I nonetheless find myself being surprised at his attitude a lot of the time, and perhaps it's because he is a beekeeper. I always thought that someone in that line of work would be a bit more mellow. Don't ask me why.

Well, I'm sorry but everybody is wrong on this one.
"Screw job", and "jerks" seem pretty tame to me. I could have said "puss filled boil" but I didn't. If you are going to start censoring adjectives I think that is a bit much. But seriously, I really do think the truckers and miners are being wronged here. And I think the people pushing this do not have any regard for other peoples livelyhood just because it's something different from their experiance.
It is amazing on how many things we disagree Tyler, But since I'm in contact with so many of "your kind" I feel compelled to try to comunicate.

holy shit.
Brian- you are a complete and utter asshole.
Do you understand those words?
You SHOULD investigate anger management, basic communication skills and immediately get a girlfriend or wife if you don't have one already before you kill someone/get killed or get cancer.
Do I have your attention?

Probably NOT.

btw- you are still welcome to use the video camera.

I guess I have to separate myself from my personal opinions and issue an equal-opportunity reprimand to El-A now too. Sheesh.

Brian, if you are what you eat, I am in fear of your honey.

Seriously, you are wrong alot, and this is no exception. In any society, there is massive interference with everyone's livelihoods, and the life choices available to them. So it is less than meaningless to say that some activity should be tolerated because people make money doing it. So what? I assume you believe that people should be allowed to set up an Ouzo and heroin stand outside Nordhoff high school because they could make some money?

Are you against rules prohibiting child labor? Slavery? I suppose you believe that slaves were hurt by emancipation, losing that steady meal. Those awful NIMBY do-gooders, hurting the slaves' livelihoods and decimating the plantation lifestyle just because they don't like slavery.

Is anyone entitled to engage in their business in the most harmful way, with no recourse of a society to require them to choose less harmful alternatives?

The imagination can only ponder what you think people should be able to do. Do you know: In some places, people kill other people and take their land. They think it helps them improve their livelihoods. Would you support that?

(Oh wait... you support the Iraq war... I forgot.)

Those trucks are a nuisance and a blight. There is no reason in the world why the owners of the mine should be able to hurt our quality of life for their own private profit. spk is right, it is sad that you Republicans have created such a sick society that the truck drivers have little choice but to endanger and harm the rest of us in order to put food on the table. Howard Smith and the rest of Ojai is doing them a favor by reining in the mine owners, and you ought to get on board. It'll be good for you, and maybe your honey will taste a little sweeter as a result.

We are talking about bringing rocks down from a mountain !!!!!!!!!! What could be more benign than that.

Tyler-

I respect you so much you are welcome to spank my rear any time.

OK, OK- one vile outburst is 1 2 many.

From another community...

What's wrong with an industrial hard rock quarry?

It's entirely possible that there are quartzite deposits up in those mining areas. Does anyone know what quartzite is used for? Please raise your hand if you know.

Oh my God! Not quartzite?! Really? Quartzite?! Yahoo!! That puts an entirely different complexion on this whole mess!! Quartzite, ferchrissake!!

Quartzite is used in making high grade silicon which is the primary feedstock for photovoltaic solar panels.
I can see the headlines now "TOWN OF OJAI BLOCKS RAW MATERIALS USED IN MAKING SOLAR ELECTRIC PANELS" "green energy officals bewildered"

And Ozena Valley is Earth's sole source of quartzite. (And gravel. There's no gravel in the Santa Clara or Ventura or Santa Maria or Guadalupe Rivers.)

what follows came from an article listed under quartzite on wikipedia..... i have quoted the summary of principal applications of quartzite.... it says nothing about solar panels... so i guess your imagined headline, Brian, is just another right-wing fantasy....

Applications
Quartzite is used in both residential and commercial applications and quite frequently in landscaping environments. It can be found in pool surrounds, patios, fountains, walls, paving and curbing as well as stairs and stepping stones. "Our South Bay Quartzite lends itself nicely to flagging because it's a very linear bed," says Jane Bennett of Champlain Stone. "The quarried pieces come up in large, thin slabs that lend themselves nicely to flagstone applications."

John Bastovan of Peninsula Building Materials notes that the majority of their quartzite sales are for paving applications — patios and floors using cut pattern and random irregular pieces. "Quartzite is economical because it's naturally on the thin side, it comes in thinner sheets and you get better coverage," he says. "If you break it down by square footage, it is one of the least expensive yet durable paving stones."

The starting silicon for both photovoltaics and semiconductor integrated circuitapplications is 99% pure metallurgical-grade (MG) Si. Integrated circuit industrychlorosilane purification and deposition steps increase the purity to more thanadequate levels for photovoltaic use, but also increase the cost unacceptably. Sothe Si photovoltaics industry has been using reject material from integrated circuitpolysilicon and single-crystal production. But as production techniques improveand as the Si photovoltaics industry grows (30% per annum) at a faster rate thanthe integrated circuit industry, this material becomes rarer and more expensive.New sources of polysilicon will be needed [1,2]. Demand first exceeded supply in1996. The present downturn in the integrated circuit industry has temporarilyrelieved the photovoltaics feedstock shortage, but projections by one of the largestpolysilicon manufacturers indicate that demand for reject silicon will exceed thesupply by a factor of 2 to 4 within 10 years. This does not represent a fundamentalmaterial shortage problem, since the technology, quartzite, and coke needed tomake feed stock is in abundant supply. The issue is to supply feedstock withnecessary, but only sufficient, purity at an acceptable cost.

flagstone, Brian -- quartzite is mainly used for flagstone -- "patios, fountains, walls, paving and curbing as well as stairs and stepping stones."

Ok then smart guy, where does the raw material for photovoltaic electric solar panels come from then?

This conversation is ridiculously off-course. I'm not saying it was ever on-course, but what orifice does this come from, Brian?

it's entirely possible that there are quartzite deposits up in those mining areas.

Regardless of what the answer is, the notion that 600 additional truck trips a day, spewing pollution and particulate, and endangering drivers up and down the 33 and endangering kids as the trucks rumble by Nordhoff, is in any way "benign" is absurd.

I'm sure if they were bringing materials to build photovoltaic panels for the solar Manhattan project you would be supporting the operation.

You're screwing yourself into the ceiling, Brian.
Been there, done that. It's not going to fix anything. It's only going to make things worse.

Thank you for your surety. It would be wise to remember what they say about those who assume - you make an ass out of u and me.

I am 100% behind the Stop The Trucks coalition, and their dedication to protecting Ojai's quality of life, including the air we breathe, the water that flows through the valley, the safety of our citizens and Ojai's number one economic industry, cultural tourism, which supports far more "livleyhoods" than the mining operation ever will.

Tyler,
I think you dodged my question. Anyway, I have a different opinion on this, obviously. I guess it's something that has been gnawing at me for a long time. Having my comments deleted time after time for the past year didn't do anything to help my feelings either. I'm sorry if I got a litle carried away.