The sweet sound of gently falling rain…so far just a light shower but already there is a little river flowing past my mailbox…my cats all curled up warm and toasty on my bed…
A reminder of the Ojai Post Policy:
Comments are the sole responsibility of the person posting them. You agree not to post comments that are off topic, defamatory, obscene, abusive, threatening or an invasion of privacy. You also agree not to impersonate any regular authors or commenters with the intent to participate in deceptive dialogue. Violators may be banned.
Please treat fellow commenters with civility and respect, as if you were engaging in person. Despite differing opinions, we would all like to see Ojai’s character and quality of life preserved and improved for generations to come. We’re in this together.
Very sidetracked on this thread, and previous, from simply honoring Jeff and his work. Instead it has morphed into ego-trip. “A Moment of Peace”is more fitting epitaph, otherwise it resembles “sound and fury signifying nothing.”
Tyler,
What’s going on here? This thread is really really lame. I agree with Pete. Defamation lawsuits? When the weather clears up, I think the more litigious individuals should go out hiking or something and think about the dosages on their various pharmaceutical happy pills and whether the really need them.
And what’s with redacting shit? Let the geeks hang themselves with their own words. And for those of you who are about to shrill that if this thread is so “lame” why are you posting on it? The only reason I’m posting on this thread is because at the moment, the ojaipost seems to be devoid of content. This appears to be the only active thread, which is sad in itself. The Iowa Caucus happened last and nary a word. It’s a New Year and there appears to be no new ideas, just the same old infighting and anonymous gibbering. WTF?
There has been alot of legal mumbo jumbo in this thread, including from people who have membership to the state bar and hold themselves out as an attorney.
For example, we keep seeing these references to “slander” and “libel.”
Defamation 101.1: In general, there is no cause of action for defamation of a dead person.
Defamation 101.2: Truth is an absolute defense.
Defamation 101.3: The alleged defamatory comment must be one that can be proved false. Statements of opinion do not qualify, and generally, colloquially used terms such as “dumb ass,” or “insane” in response to a comment that on its face may appear so in context, while insulting, would not be actionable as defamation. (So for example, if a person makes a statement that one might think is stupid, crazy, whacky, or whatever in context, and in response, one says “you are insane” or something similar, that would not be actionable as defamation.)
Defamation 101.4: In a defamation action against a public figure, the plaintiff must prove the statement was made with malice or reckless disregard for the truth. (Newspaper publishers, attorneys who hold forth publicly on behalf of clients on an issue of public concern, and similar persons can all qualify as public figures.)
Defamation 101.5: The alleged defamatory statement must injure the reputation of the person allegedly defamed. (As an example, a statement that an attorney is a bottom-feeding, psychotic, publicity-starved ambulance chaser, while in some cases potentially defamatory per se, would not support a cause of action if in fact, the particular attorney had a reputation as such in the community where he or she practiced.)
Common Sense Conclusion 101.1: The suggestion that a departed person, may he rest in peace, was not infallible, is not actionable as defamation.
Finally, Common Sense Conclusion 101.2: People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Threatening meritless legal actions, and even violence, in order to induce people not to patronize a particular website or business or otherwise exercise their rights; making provably false statements about living persons, not public figures, that injure reputation and practice of one’s trade; publicizing private facts; trespassing on a website, after being banned; and numerous similar activities can subject a person to any number of legal consequences.
That the victims of such abuse choose only the court of public opinion, watching with morbid fascination as the perpetrators self-implode psychologically, reputationally and professionally, is a credit to their character. But still no excuse for the perps to continue.
Mr. Seale:
You wrote: “The aspect of anonymous posters on a board are easily remedied in trial through the subpoena process. At this point, only Tyler knows completely who the anonymous posters are….”
Now, I’m SURE that noooo subliminal threat exists in these words, but just to be clear – WHICH comment(s) by any of us anonymous / pseudonymous posters (now, be specific here) do you find, in the scope of your vast judicial knowledge, anywhere near befitting of subpoena action? I’m clearly at a loss, but since I don’t have the benefit of a legal education, perhaps you will be patient with me and instruct me as to what obviously must be the complexities and vagaries of the law, because, quite frankly, after reading your long and instructive….comment, I feel the sudden urge to bang my head repeatedly into my F-ing desk (oopsie, pardon me). But clearly, this is due to my inability to grasp all the complicated nuances and minutia of the judicial system. Only now do I understand how my life-long reliance on everyday common sense and overly-simple, homespun notions of right and wrong have severely limited my perception of the world and how to behave in it. Silly me!
Also, while we’re at it, since Suza is sort of like a public figure here in Ojai and Ms. Jones clearly reveled in her attempt to publically annihilate, humiliate and destroy her (Suza’s) credibility (oh, by the way, did you read THAT part of the thread?) – well, doesn’t that kind of add up to something sort of approaching defamation of character? Is it just me, or would you agree that Ms. Jones’ intent was clear as a bell. On the flip side, wouldn’t ya think any lawyer, judge and jury with half a brain could see Tyler’s and Suza’s words on these threads to be completely exemplary considering the circumstances? Gosh, I think one of them even invited Ms. Jones / your alter ego (oops, sorry, can’t help myself) out to lunch! Now that’s what I call class! Again, silly me!
So, please Mr. Seale – throw me a bone here?
There is a dog who is capable of barking thru the night without stopping. I know his bark well. I have lived within its auditory proximity for a year or so. Initially, I resisted the inevitable. (I never got out of my bed and yelled. I never called anyone.) But – I did go to bed feeling anger. But as time went on I began to wonder why the dog was barking. It then occurred to me that this dog is probably chained to a tree. I started to feel compassion for this dog who must be sleeping away his days and barking thru the night pleading for his freedom.
Anonymous # 111,
Thank you sir or madam! Three cheers for a good attorney! There is nothing worse than a nasty, vindictive, self-serving lawyer, and nothing better than a sane, sound, good-hearted one when you really need them — especially one with a good dose of wit. Keep up the good fight!
To the son of a witch: free speech simply means you can say what you want…or does it? Well, you can if you want to say, create your own blog or write your own book. Tyler is free to create his own blog and run it how he sees fit. And if someone has been banned and still feels a need to communicate with this audience, they can write a letter to the editor. You’re still free to speak, no one (unfortunately) has taken that away from you.
Dear Tinman (Comment #114)
I hope your Post is a parable. If your dog story is a real-life situation, I hope you will investigate why the dog is barking and call the Ventura County Humane Society or other appropriate animal welfare agency to find out what to do. http://www.unchainyourdog.org/
It’s good for us humans to remember that dogs are pack animals. As this web site explains, “in the wild, canines live, eat, and sleep with their family. In the absence of dogs, humans become their “pack.” A chained dog feels rejected and doesn’t understand why.
Imagine being chained to a tree year after year. You watch the door hoping someone will come play. No one ever does. You long to run, but you can only pace. You shiver in winter and pant in summer. Eventually, you stop barking. You have given up hope.
It is up to caring people like you to improve the lives of chained dogs. Some think, “It’s none of my business.” But it is the business of compassionate people to speak up when living creatures are treated like objects. You will feel good about yourself for helping a chained dog!”
Anonymous,
Please note the words “business” and “groundless criticism” in the following paragraph. This Suza Francina and Tyler Suchman, in their previous stated accusations as far as I have seen so far have failed to provide any form of specific supporting truthful facts. Do you know these two individuals?
“In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Also, note the following information, sourced from the same document, particularly at the bottom.
“Defamation per se All states except Arizona, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Tennessee recognize that some categories of statements are considered to be defamatory per se, such that people making a defamation claim for these statements do not need to prove that the statement was defamatory. In the common law tradition, damages for such statements are presumed and do not have to be proven. Traditionally, these per se defamatory statements include:
• Allegations or imputations “injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Anonymous, thank you for your correcting of my word use, previously. I am glad you still understood the content of my thought.
One other aspect one might consider, Anonymous. The judicial system was created to provide a venue in order to resolve disputes in a civilized manner, rather than resorting to archaic personal and potentially violent altercations. You would need to research British common-tort law, the Greeks, Babylon, Mesopotamia, Egyptian law, on and on to fully understand the benefits of civilized law vs. anarchy. The judicial place has been a great platform for solving numerous social wrongs in recent years, you should not be afraid to use it. A good attorney can be your best friend or your worst nightmare. I have not seen any meritless legal threats in here toward Suza Francina and Tyler Suchman. Besides what is a legal threat in a blog? Also, which truly private facts are you speaking of which you say were publicized? And who’s trade was harmed besides Jeff San Marchi? I trust you’ll answer with civility and we can continue this discussion in a responsible and genuinely respectful manner.
Ltor, I still have not seen any facts to back up Suza Francina’s as yet groundless assertions (which were off topic to say the least). She seems to have originally stepped outside of the bounds of a respectful obituary post by first posting an injuring unsupported statement that harmed the professional skills of a now passed individual, and thereby injuring his still active business. Not to mention aiming criticisms at an individual who is no longer alive to defend himself. From what I can see in this limited banned blog, Suza Francina was no longer friendly with Jeff San Marchi. What was she doing posting on his obituary, or as she said going to his memorial? Did she even go to the memorial? I can’t recall an instance of someone going to their enemies funeral? Seems there is no dignity in trouncing a pyre. Hopefully this will not be a continued trend of your fine bucolic town of Ojai.
How is making so far groundless assertions credible and exemplary? Ltor, and if humility is the coat Suza Francina wears, then it is of her own making. As she posted user rules, I am somehow unclear as to her position here on this blog. Is she an editor working for the Post?
Dear Suza,
Congratulations to you for your admirable restraint in refusing to respond to these dumb, repetitive, mindless distortions of what you said and the ugly taunts and accusations.
Evil and ignorance can never equal the power of love.
Is the post turning into a costume party? I’ll have to think what amazing person I want to emulate. Maybe we could host an online costume party a “come as your favorite pseudonym” day. I like it! There I go again. Planning a party… What about it Tyler? February Brouhaha?
Tyler,
You said you don’t support legal action from an attorney “…legal action from an attorney are unpalatable and not something I wish to encourage,” yet in googling your link http://www.ojaipost.com/2006/12/ballot_initiative_update_jeff.shtml you supported attorney Jeff Furchtenicht in a legal (some said frivolous) fight against the city.
I guess it depends on if you’re the plaintiff or defendant and if your case holds water Tyler. Could you elaborate some more on why you banned posters in here or are you uncomfortable with honest and direct commentary? Communist China routinely bans lawsuits against the government.
{ 128 comments }
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To impune the reputation of a publisher and ‘competing’ publication…..
I think the word you were looking for is spelled impugn.
First Angela Davis, and now Bobby Seale. Who’s next? Maulana Karenga? Huey P. Newton? Eldridge Cleaver? Stokely Carmichael? H. Rap Brown? Who?
[redacted - profanity - ed.]
The sweet sound of gently falling rain…so far just a light shower but already there is a little river flowing past my mailbox…my cats all curled up warm and toasty on my bed…
A reminder of the Ojai Post Policy:
Comments are the sole responsibility of the person posting them. You agree not to post comments that are off topic, defamatory, obscene, abusive, threatening or an invasion of privacy. You also agree not to impersonate any regular authors or commenters with the intent to participate in deceptive dialogue. Violators may be banned.
Please treat fellow commenters with civility and respect, as if you were engaging in person. Despite differing opinions, we would all like to see Ojai’s character and quality of life preserved and improved for generations to come. We’re in this together.
To the 13 year-old who posted Comment #103:
I don’t think you have any.
Bobby Seale! Stop it! Yer killin’ me
Very sidetracked on this thread, and previous, from simply honoring Jeff and his work. Instead it has morphed into ego-trip. “A Moment of Peace”is more fitting epitaph, otherwise it resembles “sound and fury signifying nothing.”
anonymous 10:58
just how much do I love that photo!! I am tuning out the content of this thread now but that photo stand on its own, made my day.
Tyler,
What’s going on here? This thread is really really lame. I agree with Pete. Defamation lawsuits? When the weather clears up, I think the more litigious individuals should go out hiking or something and think about the dosages on their various pharmaceutical happy pills and whether the really need them.
And what’s with redacting shit? Let the geeks hang themselves with their own words. And for those of you who are about to shrill that if this thread is so “lame” why are you posting on it? The only reason I’m posting on this thread is because at the moment, the ojaipost seems to be devoid of content. This appears to be the only active thread, which is sad in itself. The Iowa Caucus happened last and nary a word. It’s a New Year and there appears to be no new ideas, just the same old infighting and anonymous gibbering. WTF?
There has been alot of legal mumbo jumbo in this thread, including from people who have membership to the state bar and hold themselves out as an attorney.
For example, we keep seeing these references to “slander” and “libel.”
Defamation 101.1: In general, there is no cause of action for defamation of a dead person.
Defamation 101.2: Truth is an absolute defense.
Defamation 101.3: The alleged defamatory comment must be one that can be proved false. Statements of opinion do not qualify, and generally, colloquially used terms such as “dumb ass,” or “insane” in response to a comment that on its face may appear so in context, while insulting, would not be actionable as defamation. (So for example, if a person makes a statement that one might think is stupid, crazy, whacky, or whatever in context, and in response, one says “you are insane” or something similar, that would not be actionable as defamation.)
Defamation 101.4: In a defamation action against a public figure, the plaintiff must prove the statement was made with malice or reckless disregard for the truth. (Newspaper publishers, attorneys who hold forth publicly on behalf of clients on an issue of public concern, and similar persons can all qualify as public figures.)
Defamation 101.5: The alleged defamatory statement must injure the reputation of the person allegedly defamed. (As an example, a statement that an attorney is a bottom-feeding, psychotic, publicity-starved ambulance chaser, while in some cases potentially defamatory per se, would not support a cause of action if in fact, the particular attorney had a reputation as such in the community where he or she practiced.)
Common Sense Conclusion 101.1: The suggestion that a departed person, may he rest in peace, was not infallible, is not actionable as defamation.
Finally, Common Sense Conclusion 101.2: People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Threatening meritless legal actions, and even violence, in order to induce people not to patronize a particular website or business or otherwise exercise their rights; making provably false statements about living persons, not public figures, that injure reputation and practice of one’s trade; publicizing private facts; trespassing on a website, after being banned; and numerous similar activities can subject a person to any number of legal consequences.
That the victims of such abuse choose only the court of public opinion, watching with morbid fascination as the perpetrators self-implode psychologically, reputationally and professionally, is a credit to their character. But still no excuse for the perps to continue.
Mr. Seale:
You wrote: “The aspect of anonymous posters on a board are easily remedied in trial through the subpoena process. At this point, only Tyler knows completely who the anonymous posters are….”
Now, I’m SURE that noooo subliminal threat exists in these words, but just to be clear – WHICH comment(s) by any of us anonymous / pseudonymous posters (now, be specific here) do you find, in the scope of your vast judicial knowledge, anywhere near befitting of subpoena action? I’m clearly at a loss, but since I don’t have the benefit of a legal education, perhaps you will be patient with me and instruct me as to what obviously must be the complexities and vagaries of the law, because, quite frankly, after reading your long and instructive….comment, I feel the sudden urge to bang my head repeatedly into my F-ing desk (oopsie, pardon me). But clearly, this is due to my inability to grasp all the complicated nuances and minutia of the judicial system. Only now do I understand how my life-long reliance on everyday common sense and overly-simple, homespun notions of right and wrong have severely limited my perception of the world and how to behave in it. Silly me!
Also, while we’re at it, since Suza is sort of like a public figure here in Ojai and Ms. Jones clearly reveled in her attempt to publically annihilate, humiliate and destroy her (Suza’s) credibility (oh, by the way, did you read THAT part of the thread?) – well, doesn’t that kind of add up to something sort of approaching defamation of character? Is it just me, or would you agree that Ms. Jones’ intent was clear as a bell. On the flip side, wouldn’t ya think any lawyer, judge and jury with half a brain could see Tyler’s and Suza’s words on these threads to be completely exemplary considering the circumstances? Gosh, I think one of them even invited Ms. Jones / your alter ego (oops, sorry, can’t help myself) out to lunch! Now that’s what I call class! Again, silly me!
So, please Mr. Seale – throw me a bone here?
Anonymous 12:15 p.m.:
Now THAT makes sense!
There is a dog who is capable of barking thru the night without stopping. I know his bark well. I have lived within its auditory proximity for a year or so. Initially, I resisted the inevitable. (I never got out of my bed and yelled. I never called anyone.) But – I did go to bed feeling anger. But as time went on I began to wonder why the dog was barking. It then occurred to me that this dog is probably chained to a tree. I started to feel compassion for this dog who must be sleeping away his days and barking thru the night pleading for his freedom.
Anonymous # 111,
Thank you sir or madam! Three cheers for a good attorney! There is nothing worse than a nasty, vindictive, self-serving lawyer, and nothing better than a sane, sound, good-hearted one when you really need them — especially one with a good dose of wit. Keep up the good fight!
To the son of a witch: free speech simply means you can say what you want…or does it? Well, you can if you want to say, create your own blog or write your own book. Tyler is free to create his own blog and run it how he sees fit. And if someone has been banned and still feels a need to communicate with this audience, they can write a letter to the editor. You’re still free to speak, no one (unfortunately) has taken that away from you.
Dear Tinman (Comment #114)
I hope your Post is a parable. If your dog story is a real-life situation, I hope you will investigate why the dog is barking and call the Ventura County Humane Society or other appropriate animal welfare agency to find out what to do.
http://www.unchainyourdog.org/
It’s good for us humans to remember that dogs are pack animals. As this web site explains, “in the wild, canines live, eat, and sleep with their family. In the absence of dogs, humans become their “pack.” A chained dog feels rejected and doesn’t understand why.
Imagine being chained to a tree year after year. You watch the door hoping someone will come play. No one ever does. You long to run, but you can only pace. You shiver in winter and pant in summer. Eventually, you stop barking. You have given up hope.
It is up to caring people like you to improve the lives of chained dogs. Some think, “It’s none of my business.” But it is the business of compassionate people to speak up when living creatures are treated like objects. You will feel good about yourself for helping a chained dog!”
This is still an open thread, right?
Well, then: the acorns were right.
For those who missed the Post on the acorns that Comment #118 is referring to:
Predicting Rain This Year: Acorns vs. Scientists
http://www.ojaipost.com/2007/12/predicting_rain_this_year_acor.shtml
Anonymous,
Please note the words “business” and “groundless criticism” in the following paragraph. This Suza Francina and Tyler Suchman, in their previous stated accusations as far as I have seen so far have failed to provide any form of specific supporting truthful facts. Do you know these two individuals?
“In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism.” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Also, note the following information, sourced from the same document, particularly at the bottom.
“Defamation per se All states except Arizona, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Tennessee recognize that some categories of statements are considered to be defamatory per se, such that people making a defamation claim for these statements do not need to prove that the statement was defamatory. In the common law tradition, damages for such statements are presumed and do not have to be proven. Traditionally, these per se defamatory statements include:
• Allegations or imputations “injurious to another in their trade, business, or profession” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
Anonymous, thank you for your correcting of my word use, previously. I am glad you still understood the content of my thought.
One other aspect one might consider, Anonymous. The judicial system was created to provide a venue in order to resolve disputes in a civilized manner, rather than resorting to archaic personal and potentially violent altercations. You would need to research British common-tort law, the Greeks, Babylon, Mesopotamia, Egyptian law, on and on to fully understand the benefits of civilized law vs. anarchy. The judicial place has been a great platform for solving numerous social wrongs in recent years, you should not be afraid to use it. A good attorney can be your best friend or your worst nightmare. I have not seen any meritless legal threats in here toward Suza Francina and Tyler Suchman. Besides what is a legal threat in a blog? Also, which truly private facts are you speaking of which you say were publicized? And who’s trade was harmed besides Jeff San Marchi? I trust you’ll answer with civility and we can continue this discussion in a responsible and genuinely respectful manner.
Ltor, I still have not seen any facts to back up Suza Francina’s as yet groundless assertions (which were off topic to say the least). She seems to have originally stepped outside of the bounds of a respectful obituary post by first posting an injuring unsupported statement that harmed the professional skills of a now passed individual, and thereby injuring his still active business. Not to mention aiming criticisms at an individual who is no longer alive to defend himself. From what I can see in this limited banned blog, Suza Francina was no longer friendly with Jeff San Marchi. What was she doing posting on his obituary, or as she said going to his memorial? Did she even go to the memorial? I can’t recall an instance of someone going to their enemies funeral? Seems there is no dignity in trouncing a pyre. Hopefully this will not be a continued trend of your fine bucolic town of Ojai.
How is making so far groundless assertions credible and exemplary? Ltor, and if humility is the coat Suza Francina wears, then it is of her own making. As she posted user rules, I am somehow unclear as to her position here on this blog. Is she an editor working for the Post?
Dear Suza,
Congratulations to you for your admirable restraint in refusing to respond to these dumb, repetitive, mindless distortions of what you said and the ugly taunts and accusations.
Evil and ignorance can never equal the power of love.
Bobby, I ZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz…..
Is the post turning into a costume party? I’ll have to think what amazing person I want to emulate. Maybe we could host an online costume party a “come as your favorite pseudonym” day. I like it! There I go again. Planning a party… What about it Tyler? February Brouhaha?
Maybe we could host an online costume party a “come as your favorite pseudonym” day. I like it!
I’m all for it.
“Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean I don’t understand.”
“Just because I don’t care doesn’t mean I don’t understand.”
Is he having a laugh? Is he HAVING A LAUGH??
Tyler,
You said you don’t support legal action from an attorney “…legal action from an attorney are unpalatable and not something I wish to encourage,” yet in googling your link http://www.ojaipost.com/2006/12/ballot_initiative_update_jeff.shtml you supported attorney Jeff Furchtenicht in a legal (some said frivolous) fight against the city.
I guess it depends on if you’re the plaintiff or defendant and if your case holds water Tyler. Could you elaborate some more on why you banned posters in here or are you uncomfortable with honest and direct commentary? Communist China routinely bans lawsuits against the government.
Hi Guys,
Just though i would say Hi!, sorry if this is the wrong section mods!
cheers
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