ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

huh? jock, i don't get it.

Happy Jewish New Year everyone!

Oh no

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTW19g-uUTw&mode=related&search=

Here's a brief look at the put options that were placed on American and United Airlines directly before the first 9/11 -- put options that, six years later, the U.S. government has yet to investigate:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/270807_market_crash.htm

jock-o babe,
you are without a doubt beyond the beyond...

ok. flights, put options covered but what's this about?
El Al's flight blackout timing dovetails with the upcoming September 14, 2007 stand-down of all U.S. Air Force jets. This full-day stand-down is allegedly for a "review" of all Air Force jet procedures. This "review" was sparked by the recent supposed mishandling of nuclear weapons by the U.S. Air Force.

Jock,

You are a friggin' anti-Semitic hate mongering moron. There are no flights because those days happen to coincide with Rosh Hashonah, the Jewish New Year High Holidays.

Get your facts about reality straight before you spew your hateful venom around the world.

You might start with an enema to flush out your brain cells of all the crap they hold.

bless you, Jock,

interesting to see that the scale of the
Derivatives (Stock Market Crash) Bets has
grown to $14 Billion as of yesterday.

will be interesting to see if it goes
up by a few more billions the next few
days.

will do an google search to see what other
indicators for 14 September are turning up.

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Laird/sep062007.html

I read that the window for these bets expires
on 21 September.

JP Morgan Derivatives Put Options Bear Hedge Leverage
http://www.google.com/searchhl=en&q=JP+Morgan+Derivatives+Put+Options+Bear+Hedge+Leverage

JP Morgan Derivatives Insider Trading
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=JP+Morgan+Derivatives+Insider+Trading

for honesty and integrity, truth and respect,
health and wealth, peace and happiness,
for our whole world family --

not just the gangster banking security state.

Millennium Twain

Hey Jock,

If and when nothing happens in the next couple of days, will you realize just how misled an already paranoid, illogical and intellectually lazy person can end up. Will you then promise to give it up -at least until you have some sign of tangible proof (beyond, of course, what you so blindly gobble up off the internet)??? Please?

Oh yeah, I forgot. As your other posts prove, you have no desire to engage in dialogue with anyone. You just post these undocumented and ridiculously patched together entries, and then, when people respond or ask you for comment or further clarification, you disappear...hmmm.

jock-o,
have you & milleuuim been nippin'at the kool-aid again??? remember, last time we had to call the fire dept. to get you out of tree....

Jock,
These latest posts you have re: El Al are really a turn-off; the Jewish New Year begins this evening and goes for two days. I'm one of your acquaintances in Ojai and I'm really fddone with your emails.

I have a crush on evan

aw, thanks evan the great! i'm blushing!

fcr: the strength of your words seems to hint at some rather hot anger, which my experience tells me may be a cover for pain. at any rate, i think name-calling of that magnitude basically amounts to human-to-human hate speech itself, and while Jock's suppositions and accusations may be unfamiliar and unpopular, they might amount to no more than ignorance (of the holyday timing).

Please. Ignorance is certainly no excuse for publishing such wild and inflammatory accusations! And ignorant is what Jock is (ignorant of fact, reality, common sense and common decency). Obviously, if he did any research on his own (rather than just blindly cutting and pasting from the internet without one ounce of rational or critical thought) he would have found out immediately about the holidays. PLEASE!!

FCR is perfectly justified in what how he responded - Jock's spreading of rumors of such magnitude is far more dangerous and hateful!

anonymous: both you and fcr need to take a chill pill. at least look up the word diplomacy in the dictionary and try to put it to use. Meanwhile, your tone just muddies the water.

JFK, I do happen to recall a post made by you (to me) a while back that was a little on the UN-diplomatic and somewhat nasty side, but I probably deserved it so let's move beyond that. Here's an attempt at diplomacy and genuine interest in furthering intelligent, non-judgmental dialogue:

Jock, what was your motivation in publishing the above post on September 11?

Is it still your assertion that El Al canceled all its flights in order to aid and abet some nefarious plot against the United States (and specifically New Yorkers)?

Now that the issue of the Jewish holidays has been brought to light, does that change your accusations in any way or do you still contend that something will happen tomorrow?

As mentioned above, if nothing happens tomorrow, will you reassess where you are getting your "intel" from and will you be open-minded in expanding your journalistic horizons?

Hope that doesn't "muddy the waters" too much.

And evan,

I never saw your response to in that other thread a while back (about non-violent communication) until now, so I apologize for not responding and saying thank you. I think the principles you describe are definitely on target and it is generally how I try to conduct myself in interacting with people who are courteous, judicious, thoughtful and who know the boundaries of decency, tact and good taste, etc.

I do, however, think that a little verbal "spice" is inevitable and perhaps even necessary every once and a while. Especially to those who publish inflammatory material (without proper backup) and then refuse to engage in logical, meaningful discourse. But you are always a great reminder for all of us to try to take a deep breath before we post. I promise to try - but can in no way guarantee that my frustration won't erupt into my posts every now and again.

P.S. And a belated congratulations on the birth of your daughter!

Arkia Israel airlines has domestic flights available tomorrow from Tel Aviv to Eliat. But, like the other two Israeli airlines, nothing to or from the US. If Rosh Hashana is preventing international flights, then why not domestic?

http://www.arkia.co.il/click/cl_4001.post_01_search?g=Y&ds=11&tra=1&jr=Y&t=9_TLV&fg=48&kj=14%2F09%2F2007&y=14%2F09%2F2007

Just a wild guess here, but perhaps because El Al CHOOSES not to fly on those days and the airline you mention above does not (for whatever reason - economic, non-religious customer base, who knows) To me, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than jumping to conclusions and predicting some horrendous plot. Can one not instantly see the problem with unbridled speculation by those who have a pre-concieved and set-in-stone world view? The same tactics (and willy-nilly use of the internet) are used everday by racists, Holocaust deniers, war-mongerers...

And Jock began this thread by warning New Yorkers specifically, and I am still eager to learn how he came to that conclusion. A two minute perusal of the El Al website would have shed light on the fact that they aren't flying to Hong Kong, Bombay, Krakow....Are we to then believe that the whole world is in imminent danger within the next 24 hours?

I get the feeling that there are more than a couple of people in this world who would be more than happy if untold thousands or even millions of people died simply so that they could run around saying, over and over again, "See?! I was right!!" I have some pretty creepy theories myself, but I would love to be proved wrong in every case.

It would be nice if all of the authors would stick around and defend their positions and/or take their licks and/or kudos, but it seems that some of them are about as likely to do that as Ed Nemechek and Brian Cox are to engage in honest back-and-forth debate and discourse. In my opinion, it reduces their postings to nothing more than graffiti when they use this hit-and-run tactic. Hats off to the authors who are actually willing to stand by their words and, if necessary, admit mistakes. I cannot and will not ever trust a person who will not admit when they're wrong, nor ever even admit that they might be wrong.

I get the feeling that there are more than a couple of people in this world who would be more than happy if untold thousands or even millions of people died simply so that they could run around saying, over and over again, "See?! I was right!!" I have some pretty creepy theories myself, but I would love to be proved wrong in every case.

It would be nice if all of the authors would stick around and defend their positions and/or take their licks and/or kudos, but it seems that some of them are about as likely to do that as Ed Nemechek and Brian Cox are to engage in honest back-and-forth debate and discourse. In my opinion, it reduces their postings to nothing more than graffiti when they use this hit-and-run tactic. Hats off to the authors who are actually willing to stand by their words and, if necessary, admit mistakes. I cannot and will not ever trust a person who will not admit when they're wrong, nor ever even admit that they might be wrong.

Right on, Phalarope!

El Al "chose" to fly during the holiday in the past: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2005_Sept_22/ai_n15627965

the way things are, the military/legal/corporate
police-state 'thingy' that is the current paradigm
of power and authority -- requires that the gangsters
regularly 'cleanse' the world, and take all the chips,
the money and stocks and business ownership.

if and when they and we change this,
if and when Israel and the Zionists and the Jewish
community end their prominent participation in this,
if and when all the religious, cultural and partisan
groups tell the truth of their racketeering, and end
the mechanisms of legal/governmental/corporate
security state racketeering ...

then and only then will the dialog cease on the
'cloak and dagger' activities of the bankers and
their henchmen corporations and governments.

when the Jewish lobby in Washington, and worldwide,
ceases to promulgate world ignorance and warfare,
commanding their slow-witted Christian armies, and
the same goes for all the covert and evil manipulators
planetwide -- when we come together to build a
global dialog and decisionmaking process in full
public view --

then and only then will the Dark Dialog Disappear!

El Al "chose" to fly during the holiday in the past: ">http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/is_2005_Sept_22/ai_n15627965

People used to get smallpox and die from it. Phone calls used to be a dime. It used to cost $13.96 + tax to fly to San Francisco. News used to be presented by people like Walter Cronkite, and it never had anything to do with things like Britney Spears' latest meltdown. Things change. Get over it.

Thanks, LTOR. Didn't mean to double-post, though.

evan is a good author, as is Tyler -- they take responsibility for what they write. I don't always agree with them, but at least they're willing to talk about it.

Gotta bail for awhile. Back later.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if memory serves, El Al went through some changes several years ago due to privatization issues. The chairman at the time, Izzy Borovich, was toying with the idea of proceeding with flights on the Jewish Sabbath and holidays despite probable backlash and boycott from observant jews. There, perhaps, lies the big "mystery" - economics and non-jewish tourism demand.

Perhaps Jock, since he brought this all up, could go back to the drawing board, do some further research and enlighten us all.

Jock's theorizing may be less than half-baked (and that's regardless of what happens tomorrow, so no need to wait to respond here Jock); and I suppose offensive, though it seems hard to me to get so offended from something so easily dismissed. But:

1) Does anyone here seriously doubt that Bush, Cheney and Co. have plans already for how to capitalize on another terrorist attack? Plans to impose martial law, suspend elections, suspend the Constitution?

2) Does anyone seriously doubt that, given the opportunity, Bush or Cheney would facilitate a U.S. terrorist attack if they thought they could get away with it, in order to further their authoritarian goals?

I am interested in anyone's arguments supporting doubts in this regard. Are there factual reasons to doubt? Or must we rely on the same blind faith that has been so abused already?

Anonymous 10:29:

Great questions, I hope others respond.

As for me...first, let me preface this by saying: I LOATHE Bush, Cheney et al (and what they’ve done to this country) and think that they, without doubt, should be indicted and convicted of war crimes. But do I think they were responsible for 9/11? No, the proof just isn’t there, in my eyes. If it was, there are plenty of qualified and capable people / organizations who would have unearthed such a horror by now.

The 9/11 Movement doesn’t like the label “conspiracy”, but for this to 1) have happened in the first place and 2) for it subsequently to have been “kept under the rug” suggests THE most massive conspiracy perhaps in history. The government, the military, the CIA, the FBI, news media, investigative journalists, A&E, The Discovery Channel, National Geographic, PBS, Popular Science Magazine (and all the others who’ve conducted exhaustive research and tests), the NYPD, the NYFD, the NY Port Authority, the ordinary workers at the Pentagon, all the structural engineers who don’t believe in a government-sponsored attack….I mean, really – think about it. They ALL are going to keep quiet, or turn a blind eye, or “tow the party line”??? Why?

That being said, I’ve never doubted Bush and Cheney’s willingness and obvious success in capitalizing on September 11th (the last election, the war, The Patriot Act, ethnic profiling, Cheney’s personal enrichment, Bush’s maniacal and warped vision that he’s doing God’s work, etc., etc., etc.) I believe they both have/ had very different and dastardly agendas which were served quite well in the first couple of years after 9/11. I also believe that we as Americans collectively allowed them to get away with it for so long (for various reasons) – distraction, apathy and inaction come to mind immediately. However, I think it is fairly obvious that nearly the entire country (even those in their camp initially) know full well the damage they’ve caused, how totally inept and uninterested they are in protecting what most of us hold so dear, and how very close they placed the US on the precipice of total disaster. They are a lame-duck gang and are lucky they haven’t been impeached and sent to The Hague – we know it and they know it. There is no way, in my opinion, that they’d be capable of managing what you describe (impose martial law, suspend elections, suspend the Constitution).

And as for the idea that they would personally facilitate an attack on this country if they could – as vehement as my feelings are towards them, as much as I hold them accountable for the deaths of an astronomical number of people, I just can’t make that leap until there's more proof. Sorry.

LTOR,

There is a huge body of information that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that 911 was a total inside job which could not have been pulled off without the highest authority.

Forgive me for being judgemental, but I do not believe you have done sufficient homework. You are a sincere gatekeeper. In your heart, you just cannot bring yourself to believe authorities could be this evil so you screen out the ultimate horror. We all do to some degree.

My experience and education teaches me that there are real evil men called sociopaths and pschopaths and they tend to cluster in power groups. Shakespeare knew this in his betrayal of Iago, Richard III, Edmund, the Macbeths and many others. Religions also recognized this but often succumbed to the very thing they railed against. The worst evil is often very banal abetted by dumbed down populations and naive, fearful gatekeepers.

It is hard to believe that the many groups in society you enumerate would not speak out. But bear this in mind: many do but you have to do your homework and find them because they are so marginalized and shut out of the public discourse. Then also look at these people as individuals; they are easily intimidated because they have bills to pay, families to take care of, secrets to hide, relatives and all kinds of other pressures, plus the incessant programming of our culture from the evil elites at the top.

Denial of hardcore truth is so deep and so pervasive as to be almost invisible. I have been wrong on many things but I don't believe I'm far off the mark in what I have just said. Time will tell because things are rapidly coming to a head. The boil is about to burst. Some say the evilists have lost control and others think they are engineering this whole thing. I don't know but either way many innocent people are going to suffer. These evilists have killed presidents for God's sake. Three thousand fellow citizens are nothing to them, nor are one million Iraqis. They have no conscience. They are not normal despite all their pretenses. David Icke painted them as lizards. To me they are just a very low level consciousness. That's a hard one to stomach but it is true in my opinion based on my understanding of the facts.

Well said, Dennis. Anyone that dismisses a close examination of the truth with the now taboo word 'conspiracy', needs to learn its actual meaning: to breathe together. I have news for you: this planet began with a bacterial conspiracy. Life conspires all the time. Thus be not afraid to closely examine the facts while diversifying your sources of information as much as possible. Being informed goes against the herd mentaility which pervades this troubled country - supposedly the land of the free and the home of the brave - give me a break!

Now, Dennis Leary is going to lead us...Oy Vey!

thanks for speaking truth, Dennis,
none of this Christian or Republican or Democrat
dumbing-down posturing; owning our words, minds,
homes, land and bodies!

for those posturers, or those simply not tutored
in black market economics, understand that the reason
why Jock Doubleday, and I, and so many others MUST
speak to the threats of further planned Stock Market
crashes etc. is because it IS a black, cover, security
state market.

that is, UNLESS WE PUBLISH and otherwise broadcast
what appears to be going down -- it WILL go down, as
there will be no public dialog or knowledge or action
to prevent it.

there would be 9/11's every week, it we accepted and
thus encouraged it, unquestioned, unchallenged. if
those involved were NOT named, not inquired about,
not asked to end the disinformation and violence
once and for all.

thus we observe, today, that 14 September, tomorrow
is a day that many believe the next crash will be
staged. thus we speak, loudly.

we also observe, as do many, that the Federal Reserve
Meeting of Tuesday, 18 September, is what may prevent
(or spur) the Market Crash Operation. at that meeting,
it is largely believed the Fed will reduce interest rates
in an attempt to save the economy from immediate
collapse. [stay tuned.]

finally, note that 21 September 2007 is the 'drop dead'
date for the current bubble of billions of dollars in
derivatives bets, betting on the collapse of Wall Street.

so a bit of shouting, in fact a lot more, is in order
here -- particularly a bit of homework by everyone out
there, and a bit of sincere group talking and problem-
solving.

for all our sacred relations.

Millennium Twain

Dennis: once again we disagree, and I'm sure that won't change anytime soon. (BTW, I have read quite a bit of the 9/11 Movement's material, publishings, etc. and I strongly disagree that any of it "proves beyond a shadow of a doubt" anything other than the fact that, within the movement itself, there is huge lack of cohesiveness and agreement with regard to all of the variations out there of the theory of a US-sponsored attack).

Speaking of that, back to the origin of this thread, what are your thoughts about Jock's assertions above? Do you or Spaz Zapper believe an attack is being planned for tomorrow and, if so, is it also your conclusion that El Al's lack of flights into the US is proof of collusion and/or knowlege of such an event taking place?

Millenium-

you want some "sincere group talking"?

well here goes:

you are a crackpot.
you are the sad boy who cries wolf.
you pollute this fine website.
you are a loser.

i notice hardly anyone engages you in your paranoid fantasies.

you sound like a jihadist.

maybe once you realize hardly anyone cares about what you say you will stop.

i recommend a thorough detox and/or perhaps rehab.

by the way your anti-semitic tendencies do not go unnoticed.

ask your sacred relations for help.

you need it.

dr.phil could not have said it better.

There is a lot wrong with the world but Jock & Millenium two are simply paranoid crackpots who spew more venon than those they condemn.

dr.phil could not have said it better.

There is a lot wrong with the world but Jock & Millenium are simply paranoid crackpots who spew more venon than those they condemn.

Their hate filled ramblings remind me more of Bin Ladin & Bush: Lots of hot air without any substance outside their own fantasy filled imaginations.

LTOR Do you or Spaz Zapper believe an attack is being planned for tomorrow and, if so, is it also your conclusion that El Al's lack of flights into the US is proof of collusion and/or knowlege of such an event taking place?

Thank you for asking and not jumping to conclusions. In my opinion, I do not think there will be any 'attacks' tomorrow. Although, I do understand why some of us may be a bit skittish. I believe that attempts to shame, embarrass or shout them down only reflect back on the shamer. Is it so easy to forget that we have been and are lied to by representatives of our government?

This won't inspire the rabblerousers at all so skip over if more interested in the joust.

I just wanted to say that I would not have even known that there was a military stand-down issued for the u.s. today (friday) were it not for this post. I don't understand why they can't hold half the troops or do things another way where we are still covered. I also don't understand why a strategic country trying to 'protect itself' would announce to the world that we are having such a stand-down.

Any real enlightenment appreciated. This really is me trying to understand this.

I am not leading anyone but myself. LTOR, I agree that we disagree on the cause of 911. Reading "quite a bit" really doesn't say much because it depends on where you are reading that information. If you have been reading the information I have, it surprises me that you could reach such opposite conclusions. One of us is making a disconnect somewhere.

Of course there is a "huge lack of cohesiveness and agreement." It's mainly about the many details but on the general interpretation of the main points there is a growing consensus which is spreading to the population at large. Lack of cohesiveness argues for lack of conspiracy and for independent investigation of truth, unlike the government party line/lies. When the perpetrators use misinformation, distruction of evidence and overt and subtle attacks on anyone who disagrees with their conspiracy, it is not surprising that it is difficult to penetrate the smokescreen.

I don't think there will be an attack tomorrow. I think Jock went too far out on a limb. Unfortunately this gives government enablers like dr. phil and fcr the excuse to discredit the obvious modus operandi of the government fascists. If, and please note that I said "if" there were to be an attack tomorrow, don't you think the shadow government might not think of planning it on Rosh Hashanah? Or do you think these liars and psychos actually care about religious tradition?

I don't care if people disagree with me or call me names. At least we're talking about something real. I prefer this to the dumbing down dribble that passes for news in the mainstream media. Cheers.

dennis, you are right. all you have to do is figure out who really benefitted from 9/11.not hard to do.the situaton is above 99.9%of anyone bruoght up in the "dumbdown" era. someone please google petrodollar, and iran oil bourse. then when you're done, figure out what the mission accomplished banner on the carrier meant....i'll even give you a hint! it has to do with saddam and the euro. tie it all together with the current state of the economy,and you will be very suprised! (i won't give away the ending with a bang,you'll have to use the ol' noggin)do you think they'll wake up dennis? hey dennis...how about going to a game?flyer vs bruins? i live right by the wachovia center ps...i'll wear my signed thornton jersey so you'll feel at homelet me know jimmg50@yahoo.com

Kate, if I may: What Jock's "drive-by" claim is suggesting is this - that the military has been covertly ordered to "stand-down" tomorrow (under false pretenses?) when it is predicted by Jock (and others?) that the United States is going to suffer a terrorist attack. Still not clear if this is a rumor within the 9/11 Movement or just extrapolation on the part of Jock of the facts surrounding the "mysterious" lack of flights offered by El AL. He (at the time I write this) is still AWOL on his own thread....

Another question I have for Jock is - are these fighter pilots in on what you're alleging is about to go down or are they themselves being duped?

Dennis and Spaz Zapper - thanks for responding. One last question before I hit the hay - would you characterize Jock as an aberration of the 9/11 Movement or an example of what I call the extreme "lack of cohesiveness and agreement" within? Surely it has to be one or the other, no?

I would not attempt to characterize Jock at this time. Not enough data. As far as your use of the terms 'extreme lack of cohesiveness and agreement within' goes and then trying to use Jock as an example of it; well, it appears to me that you have a theory and are out to prove it as lazily as possible.

Sorry you feel that way, SZ. All I’m trying to get at is that, despite Dennis’ assertions, there are a lot more variations on the 9/11 theme than just a bit of quibbling about minor details. Disagreement as to whether it was passenger jets or government-controlled drone airplanes involved that day is a major difference. The differing views of the LIHOPs (people who believe the government Let-it-Happen-on-Purpose) and the MIHOPs (Made-it-Happen-on-Purpose) are huge. Some believe collusion of Mossad and MI5, some don’t. Some believe that Jews were told not to show up to work that morning, so there you have collusion with ordinary US Jewish citizens, which (like Jock’s claims) I find really offensive. I have personally seen people with already existing anti-semetic and neo-nazi’s tendencies gleefully glom onto this. One of the latest more bizarre claims out there, apparently, is a belief that the voices of the passengers on the planes were electronically “cloned” beforehand and used to leave messages for their families. And on and on it goes…. How can all of these variations ALL be the irrefutable truth as many of you simply take for granted. And then lable those on the other side as brainwashed apologists for the government when we ask questions?

And as Jock has just proven, all it takes is a few strokes on a keyboard and all kinds of information is disseminated around the world – unfortunately much of the time picked up by the intellectually lazy, fear-mongering, irrational type.

Is it too much to ask that, if you are going to publish these views, that you are at the ready to defend and explain what you put forth?? That's all I'm trying to suggest.

Hope everyone has a safe, happy and terror-free day!

right on, LTOR! i appreciate so much of what you have to say!

as to your 9/13 post of 6:12am, i value your consciousness about how you communicate, and look forward to your next spice-fest! :) and thanks!...Noa's a wonderful person.

One of the latest more bizarre claims out there, apparently, is a belief that the voices of the passengers on the planes were electronically “cloned” beforehand and used to leave messages for their families.

It has been my understanding (and experience) that cell phones do not work on planes. This might be a consequence of flying above a certain altitude. It certainly makes me curious. Oh, and this claim goes back to 2001, so I wouldn't call it 'the latest'.

Some believe that Jews were told not to show up to work that morning, so there you have collusion with ordinary US Jewish citizens, which (like Jock’s claims) I find really offensive. I have personally seen people with already existing anti-semetic and neo-nazi’s tendencies gleefully glom onto this.

I am now understanding your strong stance and ardent quest to figure out why folks have different opinions on this controversial subject. All I can do is speak for myself and share my own personal opinion. First off, I don't see the anti-semetic sentiment dominating nine eleven discussions - that may be because I am not looking for them. I suspect you are older than I and have imprinted different biases and tendencies with regard to this particular issue. Frankly, it is a complete nonissue with me even though I do have a Jewish heritage through blood.

A manmade disaster of this magnitude, only 3 months after an obviously rigged election with so many inconsistentcies in the 'official' story has of course attracted a great deal of scrutiny from the public. It is no surprise that it attracts fringers and conspiracy theorists like moths to a light bulb. Our country has a dark history of assassination, subterfuge and self sabatage. Of course, it is not the only country that lies to its citizens.

I may be wrong but it seems as though your lumping together the folks who dissent from the 'official' sanatized main stream story, in to 2 groups, suggests to me that you are subject to the type of narrowminded and pre judgemental thought that you appear to be accusing Jock and Millenium of. I suspect you have a great deal of angst about what happened and Jock is a lightening rod for you to release this pent up energy.

In the end, I do not believe Jock or Millenium have the influence that you seem to be over reacting to. I believe this is all worthy of discussion but I do appreciate one's ability to observe and be honest with their own particular reality screens.

Flyers Fan, thanks for the invitation but I'm not a sports fan.

LTOR, it's important to make the distinction between major issues and disputable details. A major issue for example is the free fall rate of a controlled demoliton vs. the slowing down rate of one floor slamming into another as would happen under the theory of a plane crash and fire starting the collapse. Many structural engineers, architects and others are getting on the bandwagon of criticism now that it's safer to speak out. There is safety in numbers. Some sources say there are about ten a week that are now calling for a new investigation.

There are several other major problems with the government's lies that no rational person will be able to deny as momemtum for 911 truth builds, like the non-existent plane at the Pentagon and the strange fall of building 7 with Silverstein's comments. The big picture of the real government conspiracy is abundantly clear to millions of reasonable people not brainwashed by the constant media/government conspiracy to ignore the obvious and confuse people by focusing on the discrepancies of the details. Also, you've got to consider that the government is paying people to spread misinformation to confuse the issue. Remember, that if the truth does come out to the extent that people demand justice, these war criminals are going to pay with their lives, and naturally they are going to fight like hell to prevent the truth coming out. People outside the U.S./U.K. can see it more clearly because they're not so thoroughly brainwashed by the media. In a culture of continual lies and suppression of information, naturally a certain amount of speculation occurs because the facts are withheld. Fortunately for 911 truth, the perpetrators made many mistakes. They get away with murder so far because of the fear, gullibility, complicity, weakness of character and debility due to the physical and intellectual food the general polulace is fed day in and day out. Very few want to know the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" because it hurts our self image of being good people.

To millions around the world, 911 truth is as obvious as a round earth. The flat earthers will eventually come around to the truth. It takes time, patience and a free flow of information. The danger is that when a rat is cornered, he's likely to strike in self defense. I think that's why informed observers are so nervous about another false flag operation like 911. Peace.

What ~W~I~L~L~ the Fed do on Tuesday, if we make it to Tuesday?

http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/category/us-dollar/

The end of decades of the Debt-Based Monetary System has been reached ... next week hundreds of billions of dollars in European short-term loans to American corporations must be repaid -- and there is nothing to repay them with.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Debt+Falling+Treasurys+Market+Collapse+Sliding+Dollar+Economy

Will they tell the truth for the first time, that there is nothing left to steal from the world at gunpoint, and China and the world will no longer support a gangster nation which consumes ten times it's share of produce & resources, and has raped the living ocean and forest world to the point of extinction?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Debt-Based+Monetary+System

Will they announce that the US will begin to pay off its debt, the first time in, what, fifty or sixty years that a payment was paid on the debt?

http://infowars.com/articles/economy/economic_crash_us_officially_begun.htm

It's official, the gig is up!

7:00 p.m.

Everyone alive and counted for.

It is sad to think that people like Jock & Mr. Twain actually walk among us everyday. Actually not sad, plain scary.

Lunatics of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your delusions.

Frequent Crier & Redunant

I think this game of chicken will continue for some time. The U.S. has the guns and the other big players have the money. And everyone except the real psychos are chicken. The players will keep the scam going out of fear of getting hurt themselves, until Mother Nature puts her foot down and puts a stop to this rape and pillage.

Guns and money are two sides of the bankster coins. Why put the brain dead sheeple out their misery when you can get your jollies playing with them, feeding them shit. Well, there will come that moment when the tension gets too high and going for the orgasm of seeing others suffer will be too much to resist. The earth, womem and children will be once again fucked and the patriarchs will have gotten their rocks off, and made money to top it off. Why pay a whore when you can get it for free? Then they can spend a few more decades building up to another stock market climax.

Wake up, sheeple. You're being suckered by the patriarchy with its debt-interest money scam. Screw the system. Live humble and simple and don't believe a god damn thing you read in the papers or see on TV. It's all patriarchic propaganda.

I'm not preaching. I'm just stating the truth as I see it. I may be right or I may be wrong but I need to dance and sing my song. Love, Dennis

Bilderberg Israel Lobby? Are their intentions honorable? {If so, why is there no public dialog, debate and decision-making?}

Ahmad Chalabi > Bilderberg Group
Barbara Amiel > Bilderberg Group
Bruce Kovner > Bilderberg Group
Conrad Black > Bilderberg Group
Dennis Ross > Bilderberg Group
Donald Graham > Bilderberg Group
Douglas Feith > Bilderberg Group
Dwayne Andreas > Bilderberg Group
Henry Kissinger > Bilderberg Group
Henry Kravis > Bilderberg Group
John Bolton > Bilderberg Group
Lawrence Summers > Bilderberg Group
Marc Grossman > Bilderberg Group
Marie-Josee Kravis > Bilderberg Group
Michael Ledeen > Bilderberg Group
Norman Pearlstine > Bilderberg Group
Paul Wolfowitz > Bilderberg Group
Richard Holbrooke > Bilderberg Group
Richard Perle > Bilderberg Group
Robert Kagan > Bilderberg Group
Stephen Harper > Bilderberg Group
Thomas Friedman > Bilderberg Group
William Luti > Bilderberg Group

Anyone have a complete list?

Mill...

Your are a closet Nazi under the guise of a new age saint...

Take some Thorizine and call reality in the monring.

Millenium-

Bilberberg Israel Lobby?

A little more anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli venom from you?

Why not take the weekend off?
You know- catch up on your gardening or do the laundry?

The world survived the September 11-14 "crisis".

You can pick up the banner again first thing Monday morning.

I'm sure your "students" and the "Youth of Ojai" will still be hanging on to your very next proclamations.

In my book you certainly are the modern day Nostrildamus.

Sinking of the USS Liberty

woopsie...

http://www.adl.org/Israel/uss.asp

Bilberberg?

http://www.adl.org/rumors/bilderberg.asp

"Earlier this year, the Chicago Sun-Times published an article which stated: “The increasingly ridiculous Abe Foxman, head of the ADL, was swiftly located in order to ply his trademark tactic of accusing people of anti-Semitism that he knows perfectly well aren’t anti-Semites.” There was a time when no mainline newspaper would have allowed Foxman to be so described." ---Joel J. Sprayregen, former National Vice-Chair and Chicago Regional Chair of the Anti-Defamation League.

This isn't about Foxman.

This is about debunking the leading conspiracy theories suggesting that Israel acted malevolently in the USS liberty sinking.

By the way interesting that this thread is veering toward the topic of anti-Semitism.

A big shoutout to Jock and Millenium for catalyzing such a discussion.

By the way interesting that this thread is veering toward the topic of anti-Semitism.

This is Foxman's constant false accusation. Interesting that you mimic him.

The ADL holds that a modern and common form of anti-Semitism is the idea that according to Jews all criticism of Zionism is anti-Semitism.The Anti-Defamation League states:
"Criticism of particular Israeli actions or policies in and of itself does not constitute anti-Semitism. Certainly the sovereign State of Israel can be legitimately criticized just like any other country in the world. However, it is undeniable that there are those whose criticism of Israel or of "Zionism" is used to mask anti-Semitism."

Point well taken.

The terms "Jew", "Jewish", "Israel", "Zionist" have been used quite loosely in this "discussion".

What was your point in bringing up the USS Liberty incident?

International Bankers, Federal Reserve
Owners of American 'Serfs-Dumb' Since 1913:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPU8w7Bxc0A

Note: not all international banker racketeers
are Jewish, not even the majority!

Millenium-

Acording to Wikipedia:

"Quigley himself thought that the influence of the Anglo-American elite had slowly waned after World War II, and that, in American society after 1965, the problem was that no elite was in charge and acting responsibly."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley

Please make sure your "students" are aware of this.

Oh and by the way, nice realization about Jewish international banker racketeers.

Seems that your sacred relations are really beginning to help you out.

FREE YOUR MIND
HEARTFULL HEALING
UNDERSTANDING

Please make sure your "students" are aware of this.---anonymous

You have become Millenium's student but are in denial and so you project it on to others as a way to put them down. You are more transparent than you realize. You only put yourself down when you do this. Free your mind for some heartful healing and gain some self understanding. good luck.

Is it just me, or do some of the posts that spring up surrounding Millenium's entries make as little (or even less) sense than Millenium's do themselves?!? Any translators out there?

anon,

definitely not "acting responsibly".

and, thanks, for the Quigley wikipedia reference.

here is part 2 of the CFR, Corrupt Federal Reserve
(and Council on Foreign Relations) video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQZ56hkKOlk

for all our sacred (global family) relations ...

Millenium is obviously a very smart and determined madman.

My only intent is that he does not influence his "students" or the potentially gullible "Youth of Ojai" in a direction that creates more fear and loathing.

I'll probably stop posting on this topic.

Mission Accomplished???

I think that with this thread Jock, Millenium and their bunch prove just how unreliable their research, knowlege and awareness of reality really is, once and for all. Jock posted wild accusations in a careless "hit-and-run" fashion (which Millenium seconded), then completely and conveniently withdrew himself from having to explain where his information was obtained and, in doing so, revealed how truly foolish, reckless and uninterested in the truth he and his cohorts really are. And they cry foul when they are labeled "paranoid" and "conspiracists"?!?! Unbelievable!

The last refuge of a bigot is the use of some "infamous quote,' or some "legendary authority," particularly when lifted off some supposedly authoritative web site.

If it quakes like a duck, walks like a duck, tastes like a duck, it's duck. Millenium (what a pretentious name) and Jock are classic in this regard. Wild eyed, angry lunatics who find conspiracies under every rock and in their dense and limited understanding of reality have to find some manipulative force to blame for all the world's ills and their own very real short-comings.

Wake up, schmucks,(and you know who you are) the world and the people therein are an often, imperfect lot who do a lot of weird, unusual stuff.

Ranting like howling wolves who believe they've discovered the cure to all that's evil, is just another form of evil. And at its root, evil is really boring and banal, because it never changes.

Whether it's 1939 or 2007 or 1491, hate mongers always have a defense, but it is always the same form of the big lie: blame "those people."

Hey, lighten up. You're doing what you're ranting against. So Jock made a mistake (it seems) in prediction and analysis of some data, and chooses not to acknowledge that so far or say why he thinks he's still correct. So what? It's a free country.

I believe Jock and MT are correct in their analysis of the fundamental problems and actors behind the scenes; and if you'll check the record, I did not think anything unusual would happen on the 13-14-15th. Jock may be wrong about the timing but IF and when another false flag 911 does occur, will those now castigating him have the balls to admit their mistake?

If you read the mainstream press, like Fox News, it's very clear that they are being given their marching orders to prepare the public for yet another terrorist event. Just read what our Homeland Security chief is saying. It sounds like pre-war Germany being surrounded on all sides by enemies. I happen to believe that the evil geniuses who have hijacked our government are the real terrorists and conspirators, creating an enemy so they can steal still more of our liberties and assets.

So there. Lay off Jock and MT for a bit a concentrate your fire on me.

I just saw an analysis of the videos of those so called planes that hit the Twin Towers along with the obviously pre-prepared press like CNN and Fox to spin the story. The planes hitting the towers may turn out to have been created in a film studio. There may have been no planes involved at all but missiles.

There. That should give the true blues and fed up reds a chance to try and shoot me down. Hey, keep an open mind. You heard the one about the parachute. I've got mine ready if the branch I'm standing on breaks. Cheers.

Dennis

c'mon, you don't really believe the crap you say?

you just want some attention, right?

you're probably just as lovable as the next guy.

but probably not much fun out on a date.

Anon, let me comment line by line since you layed it out so nicely.

Line 1. Crap is a term that has emotional value but little intellectual substance. I don't mind because I use that kind of language all the time as sort of an emotional intelligence. However, what you call crap is the truth so naturally I believe it.

Line 2. Sure I want attention but the question is from whom? By seeking love and truth, I automatically get attention from those sources, both physical and metaphysical. Hey, it's a great investment. What you give you get. Get it?

Line 3. Am I as lovable as the next guy? Depends on who the next guy is? And who is doing the loving. Some people love Bush and would say I am not as lovable as him. In a deep spiritual sense everybody is as lovable as everyone else but then, I'm not spiritual.

Line 4. Probably not much fun on a date? True because I don't date. I don't drink, smoke, go to movies you have to pay for, don't go to restaurants except Jim and Rob's maybe once a week, hate sports and TV. So who could possibly think I was fun. Oh, I do like to cuddle in bed and have sex if I can get it up and she can let it in.

Thanks for this chance to hone my writing skills. You're pretty good yourself but why don't you pick a pseudonym. Anonymous is pretty uncreative.

Denny-

If you can get to Thailand, I think you will find sex well within your budget.

Just trying to be helpful...

Dennis, Wow, thank you for sharing your story. Observing your growth as a writer and a human being has been inspiring. Even thru this binary world, I sense a sincerity that seems to disarm the attack dogs. It never ceases to amaze me when the herd like mentality rears its ugly head and machine guns the dissenters. It makes me think of ants, bees and emperor penguins.

Ants do not have any room for the rare indepenent minded ant. They destoy the aberration immediately. Bees are part of a hive. The hive mentality rules and any bee that does not work is killed. Among the ants and the bees there is no room for individual artistry. Emperor penguins also come to mind when I read many of these threads. Most folks want to be where it is safe. Where it is warm. The emperor penguin cannot exist alone. They take turns on being on the outside - exposed to the arctic elements. This is where the metaphor diverges. I think the vast majority of Americans do not want to be on the outside at all - especailly with their perspective on politics. The idea that their are folks who live outside the mundane, main stream, franchise, fast food, TV, God Bless America, uncle sam, apple pie world is deeply disturbing to them. Why is this so? I think on a deep level they cannot help but compare themselves to the true individual and this comparison makes them feel less than. It makes them feel like they have been wasting their lives, like they have never accessed their true creative potential. This, I suspect, is everyone's darkest fear: They have been holding themselves back and not even scraping the surface of what it means to be human.

I think you know what it is Dennis. Thank you.

While looking at the comment tracker on the right side of the website, it looks almost like: Unmasked, but still in agony. I hope you feel better unmasked. Even talking to fringers hurts. I guess it means you are too close to the edge...

BTW, Unmasked, in actuality you are not unmasked at all. How about Masked Avenger? We can call you MA for short.

Cheers.

I like your writing spaz. Intellectual, contemplative, honest and deep -- at least to me. It's painful to me sometimes to read the posts when everyone jumps on something or starts attacking. I notice often when I comment or ask a question no one here notices because it's not part of the immediate argument but I want to go deeper and understand more. Your writing to me sort of sums it up, wraps it up. Thanks!
and, btw. Seems apropro that along with all these slams there are fewer and fewer actual names being used.
I stand as kate.

Wasn't "Unmasked" a Dylan flick or was it "Masked"? I'm really enjoying these comments and learning a lot.

I like the metaphor of the ants, bees and penguins. I sort of thought of trying on the role of queen bee or queen ant rather than the roles of drones and workers which have obvious drawbacks but then the queen isn't very independent. I think I'll be one of those scouts, maybe a double agent scout. As for a penquin, forget it. I can't take the cold, even on the inside of the pack. Sweet dreams.

Regarding sex in Thailand, thanks for the tip but my only question is should it be done masked or unmasked?

if israel stop killing inocent people all the people in the world would feel better even people of israel