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And that will cure cancer?!

Really interesting post, Didj, but I would like to offer that not everyone is in your position. Not having access to proper healthcare, for the insured and uninsured alike, can be catastrophic to families.

What about the 1 in 4 kids in Harlem that have asthma?
What about the coal mine workers, the steel mill workers, the slaughterhouse workers, and their families?
What about the unexpected stroke or broken neck while snowboarding or the bite by the brown recluse spider?

What if you are dirtsurfing on the pavement, bite it, and need some facial reconstruction? What if the bills mount up to $10,000, $50,000 or more?

The point Moore makes is that we have millions of people WITH insurance who are getting screwed by the for-profit insurance industry, which has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders to maximize profits.

Regarding the government managing "health concerns", it can actually be quite effective, with Medicare and the VA prime examples of well-managed programs with administrative costs of around 1%.

So, I couldn't agree more that diet and exercise are critical to a healthy society. But to offer that as a solution, while failing to address some severe societal problems, is an incomplete argument.

Ohh, western medicine has cured cancer? Western hemisphere lifestyle is the culprit and western medicine turns a profit on it.

TCM, diet, exercise etc will greatly increase your chances of preventing cancer. Listen to your body. Don't try to silence it with corporate poisons pretending to be 'medicine'. Western medicine is not driven my making people healthy it is driven by greed. Mismanaged healthcare is the norm. Hospitals are the #3 cause of death in America. )..:

Tyler, your points are valid and by no means am I trying to supplant the areas in which hospitals serve us. Clarification is necessary. I am not referring to catastrophic instances where western medical science is obviously effective such as reconstuctive surgery or reattaching a limb. I am speaking to the over reliance on western medicine which allows our own ability to manage our health issues to deteriorate. While watching the film, I could not help but notice that all those folks were overweight. Diabetes is an excellent example of a dietary disorder and a direct consequence of poor diet. Western medicine just strings the sugar junkies along and does not seem to make any headway on actually correcting this dietary problem. Insurance companies end up having to pay for poor lifestyle choices that can be avoided with common sense in regards to proper diet and exercise. What is the cost of gluttony? Who should foot the bill?

Michael Moore hates American and provokes socialism. America is better off getting a good education and working for a Corporation that supplies decent health care , retirement . The Federal Government is the solution to this out of control problem facing America

Please Note :
I meant the Federal Government is not the solution to this out of control problem facing America.

Claire, please, enough with the knee-jerk reactions. It's tiring.

Your own Fox News had this to say about the film:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html

Filmmaker Michael Moore's brilliant and uplifting new documentary, "Sicko," deals with the failings of the U.S. healthcare system, both real and perceived. But this time around, the controversial documentarian seems to be letting the subject matter do the talking, and in the process shows a new maturity.

Unlike many of his previous films ("Roger and Me," "Bowling for Columbine," "Fahrenheit 9-11"), "Sicko" works because in this one there are no confrontations. Moore smartly lets very articulate average Americans tell their personal horror stories at the hands of insurance companies. The film never talks down or baits the audience.

Corporations are rolling back health care coverage left and right, eliminating retirement and pensions. Corporate bankruptcy is further damaging the American worker.

There are no easy answers for people such as the LTV Steelworker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWNkqjTT_Wg&eurl=

After 34 years with LTV Steel I was forced to retire because of a disability. Two years later, LTV filed bankruptcy. I lost a third of my pension and my family lost their health care.

Every day of my life I sit at the kitchen table across from the woman who devoted 36 years of her life to my family and I can’t afford to pay for her health care. What’s wrong with America and what will you do to change it?

Hey Mike -

Yes, true, good points in general. But not all of them were overweight, such as the 9/11 ground zero volunteer.

If the system were to undergo a dramatic change, then that change could certainly encompass the notion of preventive medicine, which may include screenings for hereditary diseases, early cancer detection, and yes, nutrition and exercise counseling.

I find it odd, myself, how rare it is to hear a doctor say that diet affects a certain affliction. When common sense says it is true.

Anyway, good conversation, Didj.

MD, much like our President, you and your loved ones must be pretty physically healthy right now, but when catastrophic illness strikes, I'll bet you change your tune. Similarly, I think if Bush or anyone in his family got hit with an incurable disease, he might have a different opinion on stem cell research.

This post smacks of a lot of new age thinking that blames the sick person. not everyone is so "enlightened"(read priveleged) to have access to regular colonics, acupuncture, raw food diets and information about these things.
I think that we need to admit that people in this country need access to basic health care without going broke. it is elitest and uncompssionate to suggest otherwise.

Do any of you bloggers work? Why do you think the Federal Government owes all americans free health care? Taxes and more taxes is what the working person will be up against. Working is not a bad thing. No one and NO government needs to pay for healthcare . Do you also think illegals should be covered? If so , why not cover their families back in Mexico.

"America is better off getting a good education"...

In light of your previous posts, Claire, claiming to speak for the majority of Ojai, I'm curious, in which of the Valley's fine schools were you educated?

Claire, your heated rhetoric is unbecoming.

Of course I work - I am the sole proprietor of my own business, which means I pay double taxes on payroll, social security, medicare, etc, as the employer and the employee. And if you read the biographies on the site, I think you'll find all of us work. We are members of this community, and I don't appreciate you trying to marginalize the authors of this site.

I was fortunate enough to be able to get personal insurance, because I can't get on a group plan, because working for big corporations isn't the only way to have a job in this country. And yet, if you were to watch SiCKO, you would know that my coverage could be taken away or denied at any time.

I think you need to broaden your definition of taxes, Claire. Cost of living has soared in the last six years. Gas, milk, bread, energy - we are paying for corporate welfare. If you have some catastrophic medical expenses, that is selective taxation.

I don't advocate "free" health care - that's not the same thing as comprehensive universal health care. Guaranteed access to health care, even if its for a fee, is preferential to the current system, where there is no guarantee of coverage even if you DO have health insurance.

I don't understand why you would not support universal health care (even if its just for US citizens by your definition). After all, What Would Jesus Do? Why do you feel some of us, particularly the poorest and weakest among us, should have no net or health care?

I wasnt fortunate to attend Ojai's schools. Ive moved here with my husband and children. Our roots are from Nebraska. We both attended Univ. of Nebraska. The schools in Nebraska are superior in comparing them to California's . The culture divide was another issue Ive had , but I have come to love Ojai and some parts of California.

When I pay my taxes, it does not bother me that funding goes to fire or police protection, to schools, roads, National Parks or various environmental projects….even if my kids do not go to public schools or I do not live in the area of the fire or restoration. That is how I want my taxes spent. It does bother me that gross amounts of my taxes are spent on things like invading other countries, “renditions”, and support of the Guantanamo Bay prison. It is a wonder to me that so many feel otherwise.
If we drew two columns for spending $500 billion: one for invading Iraq and another for excellent health care for every man, woman and child in this country. How would we vote? It doesn’t even seem like a contest to me, but lots of Americans seem to feel otherwise….it is disheartening.

Mike, I do not hold the government responsible for my health. I agree with you that I must tend to my own mind/body/spirit. Yet many Americans are not as fortunate as I. There is no reason that I can think of that every person in this country should not receive the basic healthcare of their choosing (traditional or alternative) as part of the package of citizenship.

Hmmm...The way you come across on many of your past posts (implying that you "speak" for Ojai), one would think you were born and raised here (as many of us with profoundly opposing views to yours have been). I would suggest that your one-note "knee-jerk" rhetoric and narrow-minded analysis of major, incredibly complex issues are not doing your old Alma Mater any favors.

The Federal Government is not the solution. Get off your duffs and work. My husband works 2 jobs just to support our family and we pay for our own health care . I would rather have my tax dollars pay for securing the homeland, education tax incentives .

What does Michael Moore know? He is making millions on the documentary film and he thinks he can relate, oh please .

Claire, do you LISTEN (really LISTEN) to what others here are writing? Are you trying to absorb, understand, syntesize all of the ideas and arguments that are put forward on this blog? If not, why the hell participate? If you can't answer in a coherent fashion, perhaps you should quit throwing uninspired, infantile "lobs" into the discussion.

I challenge you: What are your thoughts on what Tyler and Dennis just wrote??

If you were to watch the movie, Claire, you would see that it is about the people that DO have health care, and have their coverage denied, or insufficiently covered, in the case of emergency and illness, because of how the corporate structure of health insurance companies is set up.

It is silly to be in a debate with someone who hasn't seen the thing we are debating.

And to imply that us readers, authors and commenters don't work is insulting and untrue.

I am privilidged, unlike the majority of people on this planet and my world view will reflect that privlidge. I am white. I am male. I live a middle-class livestyle. I have a profession. A career. I have health insurance for my entire family at a minimal cost. I am grateful. This is the foundation from which I write.

I believe that many illnesses may be preventable through diet and exercise. This is what the doctor may tell you too. There are also conditions that lie beyond this treatment, some mentioned above, that arise from catastrohic events and genetics.

I also believe we live in a toxic environment and it may be unavoidable to prevent certain illness with just diet and exercise (unless we were to leave civilization). For example, the air we breathe, the clothes we wear, the beds we sleep in, the furniture we sit on, the water we drink, the food we eat (even organic and raw), the cars we drive, the computers we use, the books we read, the new toys we buy (bikes, dirtsurf board, etc.), the sunglasses I wear, the phone I use, ALL CONTAIN TOXINS that may contribute to illness. The rise in cancer in the Western World is a perfect example of this condition of civilization. As our modern world expands, these diseases will expand with it.

There is hope and we can reduce the damage we do to our body, but illness is one thing that is unavoidable. The Buddha said, "I am of the nature to have ill health. There is no way to escape ill health."

Is universal health care a solution? It is part of the solution to a much deeper problem. There are many deaths that could be avoided with a decent health care system that treated all who are sick and ill.

So Claire doesn't work and is really healthy at the moment.

Ofcourse I have been paying attention, have you?
My opinion is that "Univeral Healthcare" is socialism and which could highten communists pouring into our government. I will not watch that filth that is so skewed and twisted and only brings in one point of view. That is not fair.

Im a stay at home mother. Yes that is a full time job. I also have a home based business for residual income.

Clare, if you look at it that way, public education is socialism; the postal service is socialism; Medicare is socialism; Social security is socialism…..we live in a country that provides many of our basic human needs. If that is socialism, sign me up.
What preferable “ism” instead defers tax money into weaponry, environmental exploitation and invasions.

Good point,however that doenst mean its right. The government wastes billions of our tax dollars for illegal aliens services, yes our public schools, health care amongst other services CA offers and other states . The government needs to be overhauled.

First item that needs to be tackled in 2009 is getting rid of welfare ,food stamps , subsidies for preschools.

Claire, we all know it's certainly not the "C" word that is the biggest threat to every American and our way of life as we know it. It's the "F" word. Fascism. Plain and simple. And with the current criminals in the White House, I'd say we're already half way there.

Im completely content and satisfied with this administration. President Bush has the best intentions for all us Americans. Protecting our homeland is a good power point on how he has accomplished it, by fighting back , not weak on terror as the Democraps. We havent had any terrorist attacks since 9/11. President Bush has continued to keep our economy moving on a steady pace . Small business's have flourished to higher level than previous administrations. In my personal opinion, President Bush will be counted as one our best presidents. Its a shame Jeb wont pursue the office of Presidency.

Hahaha! That post made my day, Claire. You are a master of satire. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's good to see you have learned from our conversations. Might I add a couple?

Bush has been great for the environment, and is a staunch supporter of public lands, clean air and clean water.

Bush has quelled terrorism, which is actually at an all-time low because of the War in Iraq, which had everything to do with 9/11.

Bush has put all the resources we need, if not more, into protecting homeland security. First responders don't know what to do with all of the money flowing in.

Bush has been a staunch defender of civil rights, and no-one, except perhaps Dick Cheney, has done more to maintain our moral authority by banning torture.

Small business has thrived under Bush, with optimism through the roof!

And yes, George W. Bush should be on Mount Rushmore as the Best President Ever!

I would not go that far, but im pleased you feel safer and more financially secure.The next step is for you stop bad mouthing Cheney. Im sick of all the boo-hooing of a man who has dedicated his life to public service. I guess when you have presidents like Clinton, the expectations are very low, as his morals were.

Oh, Claire, you're too much. You are willing to malign over 100 million Americans by calling them "Democraps", and I'm supposed to stop bad mouthing a guy who shoots an old man in the face? Claire's answer to every GOP criticism: Clinton's penis! Hahahaha!

Your language is insulting. What America went through with Clinton and his bimbos was down right sick and disgraceful. Clinton was a hormonal ,sex addicted disaster. I hope the good Lord Jesus Christ will not allow Hillary and her scum of a hubby to walk back into the oval office. Oh Lord Jesus Christ please bless our country and have pity on the Clintons.

Well, Claire, I think I'll just let you have the last word. You truly are representative of the people you support. Thanks for participating. Hooboy.

It is obvious to me that CK and MB do not wish to be taken seriously, perhaps we could all do each other a favor, and resurrect the discourse in the process, by not taking authors and commenters seriously, who do not wish to be taken seriously. The OP deserves better. This is all worn out ground, move on. You cannot blame Christ for christianity.

PS:
MB,
Discover spell check

PS: MB,
Discover spell check, the world is watching.

1) I think Claire Kennedy just may be a Sock Puppet after all.

2) Tyler - you are my hero!

and

3) Who the heck is MB?

I cannot for the life of me understand why people are still engaging Claire Kennedy. This will be my first and last post related to her.

I'm all for discussing things with people who have different viewpoints. But CK isn't interested in discussion at all, she's interested in making assertions with an intent to inflame.

I urge the people who are interested in reasoned, respectful discussion to simply ignore CK. Let her post in her own little vacuum.

This is bigger than CK and her ilk. It's about the community and the things we value. So - if you don't value what CK brings to the table, then please, please...just ignore her.

Every. Single. Time.

Michael Burns

Count me in Tanya

And they said "Amen".

It is however, hard to disregard the entertainment value of the words scum, and good lord jesus christ, being used in the same sentence. Time to review your medication CK.

DITTO!

Thanks for the spell check tip. Oops, sorry about that, world, hope you can 'cut me some slack'. My degree is in Psychology - which grew out of philosophy - so I've probably committed a 'mortal' sin.

For me, this has been quite an entertaining thread - especially Claire. Her ability to hijack threads and crash them into the donkey/elephant charade continues to teach me about monkey politics. Actually, Claire is like a flying insect in this regard. Like those little black flies she is persistent, dodges attempts to shoo her away and aims right for the eye/I/ego. She invariably succeeds in her goal: distraction.

Ironically, my spelling teacher misspelled my last name. Hint: I am singular :-)

The purpose of this post was to encourage dialogue in such a way as to empower - at least some of us - to explore proven health systems that focus on maintaining health and preventing dis ease. I hope that some will take a more active role in maintaining a healthy lifestyle instead of relying on a system which Michael Moore's 'Sicko' has shown does not work very well in our country :-)

MB,

1. Science is looking for a black cat in a dark room, however very few disagree that genetics are the major determining factor for disease, followed by environment, and then nutrition and exercise. How about a little research before your next post?

2. Philosophy is looking for a black cat in a dark room, that is not there.

3. Psychology, (in addition to being a refuge for scoundrels) is looking for a black cat in a dark room, that is not there, and finding it.

4. Authors of posts who suggest that "All one has to do to regain health is to eat less processed food, more raw and get plenty of exercise". Are at best, insensitive to people who are born with developmental disabilities, and at worst, beneath contempt, and again, not to be taken seriously.

Studies have shown that 9 out of 10 black cats have rocky mountain spotted fever. Who would want to look for a black cat in a dark room with those kinds of number facing you? No thanks.

1. The majority believing that genetics is the major determining factor for disease is not science, that is called a democracy. Science is not a democracy. Einstein, Socrates, Galileo, Newton all met with tremendous resistance from their peer groups. I am afraid you are wrong that science is completely pinning the tail on genetics. If you want to take your own advice and do some research, you will discover that environment is now being seen as the primary predicator of health.

2. Great analogy, I agree.

3. Great analogy, I agree.

4. My statement was a tad too broad but your reaction reveals some anger issues. I'd reccommend that you have your spleen checked :-)

5. I love black cats :-)

Mike,
Enough proselytizing for one day, save yourself!, and give the less sanctimonious of us a break please.

MB,

Off handed comments are easy, how abot backing it up with some sources?

Thanks for the free advice, great word, sactimonious, btw. Good night world.

Hey, can "Claire Kennedy" admit her "part time job"? She gets PAID to hijack these blogs! How do you think the Republicans keep their talking points out their? $$$ only my friends, paid to people with no dignity, no morals and no sense. AKA Claire Kennedy. How sad that intelligent people engage the beast.

BTW if you want to foil the beast, keep in mind that unlike real people sharing real thoughts, she is paid by the hour to disrupt. All you have to do is leave the blog for an hour or so and she's off the clock. Ignore her posts as the nonsense they are, and come back in an hour to post as if she'd never been there with her Rovian clutter. (Perhaps Tyler can offer a feature to allow readers to delete her posts do they don't get in the way?)

nature vs nurture
'Current thinking in biology discredits the notion that genes alone can determine a trait because genes are never sufficient in isolation. At the molecular level, DNA interacts in complex ways with signals from other genes and from the environment. At the level of individuals, particular genes influence the development of a trait in the context of a particular environment. Thus, measurements of the degree to which a trait is influenced by genes versus environment will depend on the particular environment and genes examined. In many cases, it has been found that genes may have a substantial contribution, including psychological traits such as intelligence and personality[4]. Yet, these traits may be largely influenced by environment in other circumstances, such as environmental deprivation.'

It is of course a combo... for now, you can only impact your environment though. Good night again, world.

Can't afford a doctor? There's always home surgery. This is not for the squeamish. (this goes straight to video.) :-)

Sicko and the Ecology of Health Care Reform

by Dan Bednarz, PhD and J. Mac Crawford, RN, PhD

Editor's note: Up against the broken U.S. health-care system, the
nation's disease-ridden population thinks these are tough days because of
the financial aspects of medical care. However, these are our salad days,
compared to what is to come when the effects of peak oil and climate
change devastate the economy. In light of Western medicine's massive
dependence on petroleum for cheap energy, materials such as plastics,
drugs from petrochemicals, and the centralized, top-down structure of
hospitals dependent on motor vehicles, the future of health care in a
changing world should be discussed now. Growth of the economy and the
stability of the petroleum-oriented infrastructure are dangerous
assumptions, as we see oil moving toward $100 per barrel and beyond.
Co-author Dan Bednarz told Culture Change, "We ask what health reform
possibilities peak oil opens up to the people." His concern is that
reformers such as Michael Moore are "wedded to the notion that large
insurance companies and hospital/medical complexes are the crux of the
issue. In my view they are symptoms." - JL

Can Michael Moore's Sicko catalyze health care reform? Despite widespread
praise for this exposé we doubt that any message carried on the big screen
can meet this high threshold. On the other hand, Internet Movie Database
[1] has links to 124 reviews of Sicko with hundreds of impassioned
readers' comments. Moore examines an institution that tangibly affects
everyone –- in the quality and span of their lives and in their
pocketbooks.

In this review we highlight Sicko's success as a modern day muckraking
triumph. Also, it is critical to examine the shortcomings of Moore's
views of health care reform in the context of energy, ecology and
sustainability.

One of Sicko's feats is its ability to shame and throttle many apologists
for the current health care system. Who wants to come right out and argue
that it's good for our national character to force a man to decide which
severed finger to discard? Such "choices" mock the American mythology of
self-sufficiency and rugged individualism. Nonetheless, some critics of
Moore are foolish enough to serve up innuendo, red herrings, and fear
mongering about the horrors of universal coverage in other nations.

Sicko renders these charges indecent -- simply "busted" -- because there's
no way to win a propaganda war with Michael Moore on this: If you live in
Canada, England, France or Cuba you will never have to choose which digit
to save, bear the mortification of moving into your adult child's spare
room because you’ve gone bankrupt from medical bills, work during your
"golden years" to afford medication, or be told you must transport your
literally dying child to an "approved" hospital for treatment -- that's as
sicko as it gets.

What flummoxes defenders of the status quo is their inability to deflate
the emotional wallop of Sicko, especially when Moore concludes by asking
"Who are we?" to crystallize the values underlying the business side of
health care in America.

If any movie can motivate, this is the one. So let's imagine for the
moment that Sicko energizes the health care reform movement. After all,
most Americans favor universal coverage, although in the past they have
been easily misled and frightened into preserving the present system.

In bare-bones, Moore wants to exclude insurance and pharmaceutical
companies; he wants money out of the temple of medicine.

Fine, and imperative; but we have some questions. First, as urgent and
humane as it is to make medical care a right regardless of one’s of
financial status, will this solve our healthcare problems? Second, how
sustainable is the new medical system Moore envisions? Third, how do we
overcome the behemoth structure now in place to institute genuine reform?

We depart from Moore and the vast majority of reform proposals we've seen
by locating health care in its ecological context, and assert that all
three questions have an ecological answer. Since this will sound odd to
many, let us repeat this in slightly different language: the economy, of
which medicine is a subsystem, exists within and is wholly dependent upon
the natural environment (also known as the ecology or the biosphere, among
other designations). The ecology is not ancillary or subservient to the
market economy; ultimately, it supplies the energy and resources necessary
for human economic activity.

This is obvious, a truism, but -- to our knowledge -- unappreciated by
most of those seeking to overhaul medicine. Indeed, many reformers
operate as if healthcare is fed with manna from heaven. We are not
picking a fight with them; we ask them to ponder our point of view that
current medical care problems go far beyond cost and coverage to our
relationships with nature: how we extract and then use energy and
resources from the earth and how we live several degrees removed from the
natural environment. And, how what we do to the natural environment
affects our health and nature's health. [- to read the rest of this
review, go to:
http://culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=119&Itemid=2#cont
- make sure all the address is pasted into browser.]

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Suza, Thank you so much for sharing this information, This is exactly the dialogue I was hoping to instigate with my post.

Hello Mike, that's what I thought. Thank you for your writing. There's so much more to say, on another day...