ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

Hi Suza, and welcome to The Ojai Post! It's great to have you aboard.

According to Webster's, tepee is the recommended spelling.... however, if Suza prefers tipi, I'll bet she could get Webster to change his mind.... and if I were the owner of that fence, I would dismantle it before sundown......

I'm sad to here one felt they had to put up another barrier in their life, one that affects so many others, people and wild life alike. I too, would like to know the reason for it.

I used to hike that trail as a kid. When I came back to Ojai over three years ago, I took that hike by myself. Boy was in for a surprise, crossing black top, seeing yards, hearing gardeners at work and cars driving where I once used to play. It was a punch in the stomach for me.

There has to be a better way for private property and open land to co-exist. People are at their best when they help animals, and blocking their movement is no help at all. How would any of us like it if you suddenly had to detour through the East End to get to the Starr Market?

Suza,
Great to hear you still speaking up for right conduct toward all those who share our environment. (I'm home sick today, affording me a rare opportunity to indulge in reading and responding to the Ojai Post which I discovered just moments ago thanks to Evan Austin's Ojai Peace Coalition email.) First off, you can spell tepee however you like but the Chumash lived in wickiups, dome-shaped willow frame structures thatched with tules.

More importantly, you are right to protest more restriction on the paths of animals. Conservation biologist Michael Soulé has been studying development in canyons and foothills around San Diego for many years and discovered that the patchwork development that has occurred there has forced out the coyotes who can no longer traverse their ancient trails. As a result, native bird populations have gone down. Sounds counterintutive, doesn't it? Explanation: Coyotes hunt opposums, raccoons, snakes and other small animals that feed on birds and their eggs. So it turns out Coyote was Roadrunner's friend after all!

Lanny: ?Do you have a kid sister 'Gilda'? I remember her from school-MJHS and NUHS.

I remember her being quite pretty and friendly. If so, how is she doing, and is she in Ojai? she used to hang out with Laura B.

Dana Wilson

On the topic at hand, I seem to remember it was the people in this neighborhood that put up a big fight against someone building a house on Foothill, because he would have to bring in a sewer line up Foothill Rd..

Their rational was that the construction (of the line) would create obstructions for emergency vehicles. Of course, no one bought this argument, it was clear from the outset that what they feared actually, was that in time, they would be required to hook up to the line themselves, thus pay for the lines construction and have a monthly bill thereafter. They didn't fool anyone, but they played the regulation game and got officials to cower and reneged on their original approval

Now, for the foreseeable future, they continue to use cesspools and leach-lines or other simular low tech method. That many houses, you know that contamination is percolating down to the water table.

They certainly don't need to be adding more development.

I hope this barrier is temporary.

Pardon my lack of netiquette but I'm brand new to all this blogging and posting. I'm not sure if I'm somehow supposed to respond to Dana privately about my sister, so please clue me in. Anyway, yes, Gilda is my kid sister and I'm glad to hear, but not surprised, that someone else thinks she's pretty and friendly. I know her husband Ben does. They live now in Seattle where she works for the state of Washington as Environmental Education Coordinator (not sure of her exact title) and also writes curriculum and trains teachers for Facing the Future (facingthefuture.org), a non-profit that educates students about the effects of population growth on our world and planet. Laurie is a public school teacher in Santa Barbara.

Thank you everyone for your response to my post concerning the new fence along Pratt Trail. Like Lanny, I'm new to the Ojai Post and, as much as I enjoy the diversion from the topic at hand, I'm wondering, shouldn't we include our e-mails so we can ask individuals about personal stuff? Or am I just an old fogey and is the whole point of a post to air everything out? Anyhoo, mine is sfrancina@aol.com.

Getting back to the topic at hand, the Pratt Trail is one of the "frontcountry" trails under the purview of the Forest Service. As we know, it runs through private property and I'm sure the owners can do whatever they please alongside it unless they're told otherwise by the authorities. Perhaps one could ask the USFS if they have an official opinion/position on interrupting wildlife corridors in the frontcountry.

So wildlife meaning...ground squirrels, snakes, and skunks? We don't need them down here, and I think they can find a detour if a tiny wall is blocking there way. C'mon now. I don't see the problem with someones fence. There are fences currently all along the mountain by thatcher school, gridley, and foothill rd.'s. If you are going to complain about this one particular fence, you better include everyone else's home in this matter and not this one new one that is being built. I'm sorry but I think it a tad ridiculous.

You're right, "Come on now." Ground squirrels, gophers and rats have no problem gettng through or under the fences. It's mainly their predators who can't. It's a matter of finding a balance with the natural world. As usual, there are no simple answers.

To "Come on now"
I thought about the things you said about all the other fences before I posted the original post regarding this new fence along Pratt trail. Go look for yourself. This long fence is constructed in such a way that only the very smallest creatures could slip through, without digging underneath. I'm asking, "Is this long fence so close to the trail necessary?" Also, having lived in Ojai since 1957, I'm wondering if the time has come to look at the cummulative effect of all these fences that are going up ever higher into the mountains.There is a wealth of information on this subject on the web. Thanks!

Thanks for your reply Lanny. I sorta felt I was committing a faux pas, the construct of this blog doesn't allow any other way to go off topic, in a personal way. Not that they should, I just didn't know how else to make contact. I'm taking Suza's lead and putting my e-mail forward. kg6amv@yahoo.com.

Presently I live in Philadelphia, with plans to return to Ojai, again. Long before coming out here, I was told about how there isn't all the fencing that we have in California. It's true. In certain neighborhoods, there are no fences. For someone born and raised in the West, it's an amazing experience to see dozens of homes without barriers.

In other neighborhoods, where they have fences, they may be 3 feet high. Still, there are areas where fences, and low abound out here.

No,I'm not jumping on a 'tear all the walls down campaign', but I see them in a different light now.

?Did Suza know what would come after a simple little question?

Point taken. I do agree it is an atrocity to see development along the hillsides, and that it will probably get much worse in the next decade. I want to see the fence for myself now. Thanks

as i consider the possibility of having a home (and, dare-i-say-it?) a yard of "my own", the idea of no barriers between me and my neighbors is very very attractive to me.

but my wife would like to have dogs, which apparently require some sort of barrier to control their boundaries. is there another solution? i REALLY dont like walls and fences (literal or figurative).

Depending on your time, patience, budget and square footage, hedge-rows are a nice alternative to man made structures. They are used to great effect in many village houses and cottages througout the U.K. and Ireland. They are pleasing to look at, are organic, give back to the environment, can attract birds and provide shelter for other desired wild-life while keeping out/in larger creatures. And they never need painting!!

Of course this assumes that you own your property (and Evan, if you can afford to buy into Ojai at such a young age - you are MY hero!)

thanks, LTOR!

no such luck buying into Ojai...will probably end up outside the City, and likely in a duplex with friends.

Suza, welcome to OP! We have a fence around our humble abode and wouldn't have it any other way (and neither would our neighbors) - we appreciate our privacy (and security) and respect others'. Although come to think of it, it has not done much to keep the neighbor's teenage boys out of our pool (or a coyote once). Anyone out there fenceless by choice? Suza, do you have a fence? It's hard to find homes in CA w/o fences, but on the east coast this seems to be the opposite.

clarification - the coyote jumped the fence, NOT the pool!

Hi Lisa, Thanks for your comments. However, I think you might have misunderstood my original question. I am not opposed to appropriate fences. Go check out the fence in question. I'm interested to hear what others think. I already learned something new from Lenny's previous posts. Namaste, Suza

The new fence on Pratt trail is made of wire with spaces 2inches by four inches. There's not going to be many rabbits,oppossum,coyotes or even squirrels that are going to be able to get through. Maybe the smallest of a species will wiggle through, but that means separation from their families and a bleak future.
As far as I can tell, there is no other part of Pratt trail that has an uncrossable fence on that side. Where other "fencing" exists, it is made of bracnches which blend into the forest and,
have ample room for small critters to make their way. On the other side of the trail there is no fencing except for a small patch where chicken wire protects against a sharp drop-off.
The main point about the new impassable fence is that while property in the hills may be private, it is also "private" for the original inhabitants, the animals who live there. Too often animals must give up the only resouce they have, the wild, and must push on to try another environment. How many make it? Ive lived in Ojai for 30 years and its not the same wild Ojai by any measure compared to those few decades ago.
I'mnot against fences, I doubt that anyone offering comments is. The question is always, What kind of fence, and Where, and What is its impact?
The stone wall adjacent to the fence is another matter. its not very long, but it sure does shut off the natural feeling on the trail.

The fence and wall on Pratt trail is growing by leaps and bounds. The only ones not leaping or bounding are the rabbits and squirrels and the other wildlife who now meet an impenetrable barrier as they try to make their way. The fence fury now includes a mini version of the great wall of China, and the rest stop now has some poles going up and down and across. Instead of looking at the wonder of our green valley, it's like looking at a three-dimensional tic-tac-toe. Go look, and try to see the beauty that was once so clear.

At what cost does property rights exert its stiff arm? Mine, all mine!

How would you feel if you suddenly saw two deer desperately flailing themselves against the new fence along Pratt Trail? Yesterday, Sholom Joshua, who hikes the trail with our dogs daily, saw two deer banging themselves against this overly long, obnoxious barrier. I wish the owner of this property could have witnessed the desperate way these deer tried to escape when two dogs and their human came upon them. Sholom will tell us more later today, in his own words.

I came up Pratt trail with the family dogs and heard thrashing to the right of the trail. It was two deer, panic-striken, throwing themselves against the wire fence recently erected . The deer tried to climb and fell down; they ran this way and that trying again and again to get out. The dogs reacted to the commotion and one started chasing a deer downhill parallel with the fence. The other dog went up the trail and cornered the deer till I reached him and called him off. The deer was scrambling around and I looked in his eyes before leading my dog away.
This incident drove home the cruelty of having that fence. Whatever supposed value it has to the owner, its not worth it.
The deer survived. How do we explain the fence to them?

Um, aren't dogs supposed to be leashed on that trail??

Ojai >>> Gone to the dogs

As the attorney for the homeowners association on upper Foothill Road, I would like to correct the misinformation in a prior post about one property owner's attempt to run a personal sewer line up the private portion of Foothill Road.
Although concern about accessibility for emergency vehicles was one of numerous factors that concerned the association, the decisive issue was that the property owner's sewer plan would have conferred upon him an exclusive easement on the road, to which he had no legal right. This would have been detrimental to the legal rights of the other property owners on upper Foothill, because all of them share a nonexclusive easement to use the private portion of Foothill Road. The Sanitary District and the county LAFCO "cowered" and "reneged" because each had been given bad legal advice, at taxpayers' expense. The homeowners association prevailed because the law was on its side, and its members spent a great deal of their own money to establish that (I am not cheap).
-Cathy Elliott Jones, Esq.

I do not understand what the above posts have to do with the issue of building fences that consider the needs of both humans and wildlife. The point of the original post was that when we humans move up into the hills and mountains we have a special responsibility to consider the impact of long fences that go far beyond a reasonable fence around ones home. Please go see the fence in question for yourself.

Gee, Suza, I'm sorry you seem so frustrated that your expressed upset about a fence on Pratt Trail would naturally evolve, as others gave thought to your concerns, into the subject of property rights in general.
Anyway, since I happened to be perusing your issue and the comments that followed, and noticed incorrect information about a client of mine in a property rights case, naturally I would want everyone who is pondering the issue of fences, and property rights, and unleashed dogs (which personally bugs me, because I was bitten by one of those "Oh, he's never done that before" dogs a couple of years ago) to have at least that portion of the record made clear for them.
But since you are taking issue with how your issue is being taken, I feel compelled to take issue with your issue-taking. Bemoaning a single incident is usually less effective than stepping back and evaluating the big picture. I expect, and hope, your posters were only exploring the topic that way, which is far more relevant than how you think they should evaluate the problem. The alternative is lock-step agreement without critical thinking, and surely you agree that has caused catastrophic problems in this world.
This fence on Pratt Trail may be very distressing, and also may be a legal attempt to dissuade human trespassers, another deplorable enemy of wildlife worthy of some consideration, as well as those who insist that their pets can and should traverse the city and the hillsides without being leashed, and then take no responsibility when their snarling dogs terrorize some deer.
-Cathy Elliott Jones

Oh thank you! Now I understand. I appreciate the explaination. Usually I do see the connections between different issues, but this time I thought people missed reading the original post.

My post was about what happened on Pratt trail because of the intrusive fence. What that fence represents is a leash on the land itself. It throws off the movement of all creatures, and especially those who depend on the wild for home and survival.
The problem is not dogs. The problem is the fence. The fence is insidious; it is all but invisible and must be very confusing to wildlife which further leads to panic. Wildlife must have open area to run, for health, happiness and escape.

If Cathy E. Jones would please explain what would have been the practical effect of the owner having an exclusive easement, against the other owners' nonexclusive easement. Are we talking about who can travel the road, or some other function, or possible future planning problems. I believe when you say owner, you are referring to the one who wanted to build the sewer line. Thanks

Nevermind the fence, will you please put your dog on a leash?

Dear anonymous,
I gather from the tone of your post that you have had a bad experience with dogs off-leash.
The whole subject of a dog's innate need to have regular opportunities to run and play off leash vs the safety of other people on the trail is complex and fraught with emotion. It is seperate from the issue of the fence and one that I would be happy to address in another editorial, when time permits. I do my best to be a responsible dog owner and also give my dogs a good life. The world can never be 100% safe. My own dogs are always on leashes when walking on city streets, parks, schools, outdoor events, etc. But to insist that all dogs must be leashed at all times under all circumstances because of the rare times that there is an incident is like insisting that we must never drive (or other potentially dangerous activity) because we might
have an accident. Thank fully I have never been bitten or traumatized by a dog and I realize that I might feel differently if it happened to me. This is a challenging problem that involves understanding dog and people psychology. Dogs have a need to run free and at the same time people and their own dogs need to feel safe. As our local trails get more crowded and it becomes ever more challenging to find areas where dogs can safely play off leash, the need for Ojai to have an off-leash Dog Park will become greater. Ojai defintely needs a Dog Park!

I spoke with a member of the Forest Service while on Pratt trail today. We were standing across from the fence. She said she would speak to the Service's fish and game person about the fence and that hopefully he, in turn, will speak to the owner of the property.
I told her about what happened with the deer.