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I like your poetry
It's a form of prayer
Puts good energy in the air
It cuts to the core
of what we're all here for

Love for the earth
and her women and children

Male macho consciousness
is the problem
with its power dreams
and sickening schemes

Love, Love, Love

_________________________

As for the bodies of Jesus, Mary, etc., my opinion is that it's nonsense soon to be debunked.

These stories are planted as distractions from real issues, and to make money for someone.

The Jesus story is a pure fabrication with a few historical details thrown in to give it legitimacy. There was no Jesus as depicted in the bible. It's an idea that has an understandable history.

Misinformation is used as distraction from real truth. Keep the people busy with stories so they won't catch on to the power games going on.

Divide and conquer. Now we'll have the resurrectionists arguing with the scientists while the realists have a good laugh and put money in the bank.

I really do believe in Love but it has little to do with these silly games.

Anyway, thanks for the posts. They are thought provoking and do serve the cause of truth.

How is it, Millenium, that the original UPI story you quoted makes no mention of the director's religion, yet you in your centuries old wisdom have decided that he must be Jewish? Is this yet another false attempt to blame this supposed death of the Jesus Mythology on the Jews?

Why didn't you refer to James Cameron as an Irish Catholic? Or would doing that give lie to your own deeply hidden prejudices and fears?

Imagine if you will that these researchers are correct - not that I think they are - and two thousand years of Christian history turns out to be based on some "Dick Cheney-esque lies" about a successful resurrection?

Does it really change your world? Does it impact your own personal spirituality? Not likely, but if it does, if it alters your view of reality and our role in the world, maybe you've got a lot more meditation or prayers to do on what it means to be a human on the planet earth.

the prayer above is mine, FCR, the UPI story circulating on the web is not.

I know nothing of Cameron or the film or the archeology discoveries ... looking forward to learning world's more.

And I do not have a well-educated opinion on the reality of the existence of Jesus and Mary Magdalene 2000-plus years ago.

Certainly can perceive a need for the JudeoChristian Western World TODAY to bring a message of love, respect, tolerance, patience, equality and immortality to the WHOLE WORLD being brought together in these amazing times ...

my, your, our, her, their ... returning!

Millennium

Really interesting thing about that tomb they found. It was discovered some 27 years ago and essentially hidden or kept quiet. James Cameron may be jewish (I don't know), but I kind of doubt that that really matters. I do know he is very interested in science, and it has always shown in his movies. It is because of the extraordinary profit from those movies that Mr. Cameron was able to pry this story loose and gain access to the tomb, the coffins and do DNA testing. I would not discount the subsequent findings so quickly. I, for one, would welcome a little sanity in the whole Christian religious thing.

To me it seems much more likely that a group of people gaining power with a church based on certain divine precepts would want there to be a "miraculous" resurrection rather than an run-of-the-mill death and burial. This very well may be the tomb of Jesus of Nazareth. The fact that Jesus was a mortal man does not preclude the possibility that he was a great prophet and teacher. With DNA evidence and the names on the coffins, I would think that the evidence ball should be squarely in the church's court.

Speaking as a "not-necessarily-always-practising" Catholic, I have learned to compartmentalize my faith-based notions (learned at an early age) with the knowledge that they will not easily stand up to scientific scrutiny. My faith today as an adult sustains itself on the teachings of Christ and the many good works of his followers all over the world, not on the Resurrection, the Virgin Birth, evidence of Jesus walking on water, multiplying fish and so forth. These recent revelations may put the Pope in an untenable postion, but to moderate, mainstream Christians - let's just say that I don't think they're going to throw the baby (or, in this case, the man) out with the bathwater.

And for crying out loud, Dennis: if James Cameron decided to use his fortune and scientific capabilities to prove that the government orchestrated 9/11 - you'd be crappin' in your pants and trying to canonize him. Why is this particular attempt (by Cameron) to (quite literally) dig up the truth an evil grab for money?

FCR: Just to clarify - the reference to Simcha Jacobovici's religion was made in the second link that Millenium provided, laist.com., not by UPI. I don't think he would ever doctor an article or quote.

I didn't say Cameron was making money. I said these stories "make money for someone."

My general belief is that the Jesus myth is motivated by factors such as personal psychology, political power and monetary gain.

I believe we will be better off is we scientifically examine our religious beliefs, and challenge our fundamentalist faith-based assumptions.

It's a long range goal because few can look objectively at their psychological mindset or their need for faith based reassurance.

I am working through these issues myself. What bothers me is how the leadership of this world is corrupt in part because WE THE PEOPLE are mired in dogmas which allow corrupt leaders to divide and conquer us.

The God and Jesus stories are distractions from the real work of understanding and protecting the real world we live in.

Dennis, What you said was:

"As for the bodies of Jesus, Mary, etc., my opinion is that it's nonsense soon to be debunked.

These stories are planted as distractions from real issues, and to make money for someone".

What is nonsense? And what stories are planted as distractions? The Resurrection mythology or the attempts by Cameron to prove an alternate theory? You seem to be saying two different things at once.

And if you are saying that the possiblity of Cameron's finding the tomb of Jesus is nonsense, then my question to you would be: Since you claim to have a desire to stay objective and separate truth from misinformation and assumptions, wouldn't it be prudent to wait to see what these guys have up their sleeve before making up your mind? The information was just released yesterday? How can one form such a cavalier and self-assured opinion about something before even knowing all the facts? I just don't get it....

have to agree, Dennis,

about the purely disinfo intention and practice of religion, education, journalism, government, etc. etc.

I would a hundred times rather be involved in a dialog or a research on the ancient Asian Goddess Nuwa of circa five or ten thousand BC ... ditto the Great Mother Tao of a similar time period ...

or the global aboriginal songlines of similar and earlier periods ...

of ancestral culture and knowing -- our relationship with the divine living cosmos and all our relations -- the wonder of planetwide cultural herstory ...

then and only then does the provincial wisdom have a place ...

a place that applies to ALL individuals, deities, spirits, personalities of ALL peoples and ALL times ...

wherein we see and experience the whole, healthy, enlightened portrait ...

of Earthly humanity.

(p.s. great poetry too, yours above!)

Re: Jesus, Wife Mary Magdalene & Child Judah

here is the link for the movie showing this Sunday:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20070225073000

..

Did you ever hear where the term senile came from?

What happened was Moses wandered in the desert for 40 years and started getting pretty old. One day he walked to the top of a tall bluff and looked down and said, "see nile" only it wasn't the Nile at all... it was the Jordan.

jacobovici is a jew and an israeli and the dominant of the two.

first, dan brown and his "code", now this.

yes, there is a jewish attack fronted by opies.

I'll remind you that Jesus was a Jew.

This is an interesting discussion. Looking over what I wrote, I see that what I wrote is confused and overstated.

I have been interested in the development of early Christianity for many years. I once was a Catholic priest and Franciscan monk.

I'm not what you would call a scholar but I've read enough over the years to form some definite opinions.

It's hard to summarize such a complex subject which really requires in depth knowledge of several related disciplines but for my own satisfaction I'm going to put down a few lines of thought.

Jesus is a made up Greek name based on gematria to come out to the number 888. It means savior.

My readings convince me that there was no one historical person by the name of Jesus.

The idea of Jesus has a historical development from a seed idea beginning with the Essene Teacher of Righteousness in about 150 BC.

Paul of Tarsus had a vision of the risen Christ in the 40's. Many others did too. These visions are variously interpreted, some by modern psychology concepts.

Paul had no interest in an historical Jesus, except for a few formulas, like he died and rose, appeared to his disciples, and instituted the eucharist. These are based on faith, not on any historical facts. Paul's whole thing was the risen Christ Jesus who he expected to return soon.

The gospels were much later and were made up stories using Old Testament models and literary figures from the Greek Roman culture.

Some were pure fairy tales which the common people loved, and others were more like "historical" fiction which was widely accepted in that day.

It was Bishop Ambrose who really grounded the stories in an historical context in about 150 AD. By that time the church needed a strong origin story to cement its growing doctrine base and political power.

The stories were contexted into Palestine at the time of Pontius Pilate, and written to please the Romans, or at least not to anger them.

By the time of Constantine the story of Jesus conquered the Roman Empire, and Plato's fear of poets came true. The poetic story of Jesus overcame Roman might. The pen was mightier than the sword.

The story of Jesus was a profound literary and political triumph, written by brilliant minds and inspired hearts.

The point is that men created Jesus and his religion. Naturally, they ascribed it to God's revelation because this is the ultimate trump card.

Very few moderns can untie this Gordian God knot. It's a matter of evolving consciousness, and mankind as a whole is still caught in primitive belief systems.

I love the Jesus story but I can see it for the story that it is. I believe in God but I have come a long way since Catholic grade school.

So when I hear of yet another story of Jesus and Mary Magdalene and their family's burial place, I put it into my overall contextual learning curve.

I love the story of Mary and Jesus. It has great symbolic and energetic value, and ties into some powerful archtypes, and universal truths. Dan Brown did a lot with it.

But it is still a story written by men (unfortunately, few if any women). People love stories and love to believe in them. Biblical scientists, who unravel the stories, see a very different picture. And I'm not talking about fundamentalist bible scholars.

In our own time, we are familiar with how stories are spun. We've got audio and visual proof of stories like 911, and yet people have totally different interpretations.

I believe that the evidence shows the government did it but try to tell that to anyone outside the 911 truth movement. Most people don't care about reason or evidence. They believe what they want to believe for very deep reasons.

People today have invested their whole lives in the Jesus story (or against it). Some use it as a political weapon. Many use it for comfort. Others use it to make money or stroke their ego.

I believe different groups have different interests in this latest Jesus story of his burial site. I believe it was planted by someone for some reason. The plant could go back pretty far but usually does not. Usually, these things turn out to be hoaxes.

The problem is a person has to study all the evidence pro and con, and that can be very laborsome, if even possible with all the special interests trying to block unfavorable evidence.

Cameron may be very sincere and bright. He may or may not be in it for the money. Who knows? The brightest people often have a glaring blind spot.

It does make a great story, and he is in the business of stories.

Story making has a long and glorious history. Rational analysis has been on the scene very lately. Biblical exegesis and cross cultural archeology has been here for even less time.

Then you've got the huge problem of scientific bias. If you think scientists are free from political pressure, think again. And the mainstream press is just hopeless.

So, Jesus, whoever you are, congratulations, you are going strong still.

The question of Jesus' grave begs the whole question of whether Jesus was historical at all. That question is just too much to answer except in the most glib way by magazines like Time. It sells magazines but comes nowhere near the truth.

When it comes to Jesus, I like to make outrageous statements, like she was a woman.

I can back that up by the way, with cogent arguments. They are just as reasonable as the original gospel writers'.

It is all made up anyway. Does God or Jesus care? Apparently not, since the stories are so contradictory, and the beliefs around the stories so various.