ojai news at The Ojai Post :: blog, newspaper, events in Ojai, California

Hi Leslie. Obviously, I think this is a great idea.It's too bad that I had to get arrested and beaten up by several police officers for first raising it. I know your "Len's" treasurer, and I know he's been running all over town criticizing me. Soooo, I'm just wondering why he watched the carnage involving me from the cheap seats, and now his campaign is adopting my position as his own. Can "Len" spell l-e-a-d-e-r-s-h-i-p? Or is he just another opportunist?

The People's Candidate Forum post is a nice counterpoint to the Explosive Candidate Forum post, a good place to start a new thread of thought. The Explosive Forum did blow the lid off a Pandora's box, as previously alluded to. I am not in favor of putting the lid back on, and letting the issue die, because it will just resurface eventually.

Tyler just posted my letter to the editor, in which I said democracy was alive in our county. I need to qualify free press democracy from oppressive political democracy. I believe the press is still free here, but the political power structure is quite unfree.

The "Explosive" Forum post illustrates the pandora aspect with its juicy, passionate debate. What the "People's" Forum post does remains to be seen. The November 4th Forum, sponsored by DemocraticOjai could set a precedent standard for effective, civil discourse in town hall style.

When I first observed the "explosion," and the lifting of the lid on Oct. 16th at the Chapparral, the thought immediately struck me: "she's sacrificing herself." Later, Cathy Jones said she was in control, and was making a statement through civil disobedience. To me, the incident she created is symbolic and instructive.

I have had the experience of being in control inwardly, when it appeared I was out of control outwardly, for example, when I was drunk; it was like there were two parts of me operating. I've also had the experience, in a fight, of losing control and consciousness. But even then, no great harm was done, just a few scratches. A higher force was taking care of me.

The Explosion at the Chapparral points to the tension between control and chaos. We fear loss of control and chaos, although chaos theory shows that chaos itself is in perfect control, when seen from a higher perspective.

Too much control is the death of freedom. Politically, excessive control ends up in authoritarian Facism or Communism. The danger for us now in our time is that Capitalism is going the way of its two biggest enemies, Facism and Communism, who are beginning to co-opt it. In other words, Hitler and Stalin may yet win, from the grave.

The sleeping majority, of course, think this is alarmist nonsense; that it could never happen here, much as Germans and Russians once thought. There are ominous signs: torture, war profiteering, lying, concentration of power in secret security forces, gradual reduction of freedoms, manipulation of the press, promotion of fear, creation of terrorism, etc. Still, the sleepers sleep in apparent peace.

The democrats hope to make a difference. We'll see. It's not a good sign, when they were the ones to vote for the war, and have not taken a strong stand against it. Whether they prove to be Republicrats remains to be seen.

Back to the point. What was underneath that lid that Cathy Jones lifted when she blew the roof off the Chapparral? The same fear that faced the citizens under Stalin and Hitler?

Something significant happened the evening of October 16th at the Chapparral, or there wouldn't be this passionate discussion. What was it?
It took the lid off, and brought to the surface, an extremely important political matter: the issue of control vs. chaos; repression vs. freedom; and law vs. spirit. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a delicate balancing act, a system of checks and balances. If something is out of balance, it needs to be corrected at its initial stages, or it may get way out of balance, as it did in Germany and Russia, with horrendous suffering.

The Chapparral Explosion is a gift, a sacrificial one perhaps. It's a warning sign, begging for notice and action. Playing the right-wrong game is of no use, and is counterproductive. The People's Forum on November 4th may be the informative, corrective action, if the People can pull it off. They can demonstrate that they can balance control and freedom, and find that elusive "life, liberty and happiness."

To me, Ojai has a special role to play, among civic communities. She is blessed with a beautiful, protective environment, smallness, and a history of strong willed people. The heart of her spirit is the Chumash "moon" woman, and Krishnamurti's idea of world teacher; which he rejected as a personal mission, but which still hovers in the air as a community destiny. As a civic body, Ojai can take up the torch, or drop it.

The worst forces of an unbalanced Capitalism threaten the Ojai Spirit with destruction, under the cover of sweet words. It's the old Trojan horse, dressed up as a development gift, a gifthorse. Frostie is gone, and Mallory is the next target. The mayor reassures everyone that there is nothing to fear, that the city really loves what its actions say it hates. Sleep, citizens, sleep.

Fear. Fear of what others think. Fear of losing money. Fear of losing control. Fear of chaos. Fear of change. Fear of torture. Fear.

What was there to be afraid of at the Explosive Forum?
One woman who was in control, making a statement of civil disobedience in an emotional way. Did she have a gun? A knife? Was she threatening anyone? Was anyone in danger? Was there a public safey issue? Was she a danger to herself or others?

No. But she opened up a Pandora's box of fear. Why? Because she disobeyed the rules in an act of civil disobedience. Authority was questioned. She uncovered the belief that laws hold fear in place. Authority thinks it needs to uphold law, or its own authority will crumble, and then chaos will rule. That's the hidden belief system.

Fear is a powerful force, but it is controlled by an even more powerful force, reason, if the majority of a democratic people claim their power and exercise it. That is the political question to be answered on November 4th at the Chapparral Forum, and on November 7th at the Voters' Forum, in my opinion.

Suppose another Cathy Jones chooses to make another civil disobedience statement November 4th, and again takes the lid off a box of fear. Will We the People face our fear, and work it out with love, rather than power; or will we stand by as the laws are enforced upon a woman who dares break them.

Law derives much of its force from the Roman Empire system of law. Jesus once did acts of civil disobedience, saying such things as "Law was made for man, not man for law," directly challenging the Emporer himself. Caesar feared appearing weak, or he believed his whole empire would crumble. Jesus eventually toppled that whole empire, from the grave, with enormous strength, through the meek and mild law of love.

Real authority and real power derives from higher law. In Ojai, that higher law derives from her "small town character," which is enshrined in her charter. The Chumash "moon" woman character was fowarded by Krishnamurti to this day and age. Cathy Jones and the explosion of October 16 brings us up to date, as far as Ojai's destiny is concerned. The next step is up to us, We the People.

TMI

Dennis, Blah Blah Blah.

Cathy Jones, Blah Blah Blah

Participants, please define your terms, such as "TMI," and "Blah." Thank you.

I'm "blah"? Clearly you've never met me, honey.

Dennis - I'm merely the messenger, but TMI = "too much information" and Blah Blah Blah would perhaps refer to a too-lengthy monologue.

But hey, you don't have a finite number of column-inches on the Post!

Dennis,
I just wanted to give you some feedback about your comment. 90% of the time I only read the first 3 paragraphs of your comments as they are usually WAY too long. Less is more. You might want to consider getting to your point and ending the comment.

Hi Cathy. Hope to see you at the People's Forum. Hope to see all the candidates there too. I can't answer your questions Cathy because as you know, I'm his treasurer, not his campaign manager.

The "People's Forum" sounds like a great idea and a good follow up to the prior forum. It is disappointing to see Cathy Jones making it into a personal soapbox though. Whatever happened at the prior forum, it always takes at least two to tango. Hopefully if Cathy is planning on coming to the next forum, she will do her part to help keep things civil and focused on issues. I for one would like to see her take her personal vendetta against Lenny private. Cathy, it doesn't sound like an honest grievance when it takes the form of very public personal character assassination right before an election, and it doesn't help your own credibility. If its not obvious to you, it is obvious to everyone else that Lenny is not to blame for what happened to you at the prior forum.

Here, here, anonymous 10/31 3:56!!!

Anonymous- I wasn't at the forum that night, but I did see the tape and it certainly looked to me like Cathy was focused on the issues!

Dear Anonymouses: (And what's the deal with not signing your names? That's no better than the ridiculous thumbs up-thumbs down column in the OVN.)

As is what frequently happens, the two of you are conveniently forgetting that it was Lenny who created his vendetta against me when he publicly (and privately, and slanderously) attacked me first, with absolutely no provocation except that he apparently feels I stole his thunder at the forum. If he can't take the heat now, and relies on "anonymous" support, maybe he doesn't belong in the kitchen. Don't we have enough demagogues on the council already?

I'd use two votes on Dennis and Pete, and leave the third blank.

And by the way, Anonymous #1 (who sounds a lot like Suza),I don't know how to tango, but I imagine it would be impossible to accomplish if one partner, unannounced, grabs the other from behind with such force that more than two weeks later the bruises are still visible.

Leslie: Invitation is in the mail!

Okay, I guess everyone can continue in unproductive bickering, but I kind of hoped we'd left that on the other thread.

At any rate, as cofounder of democraticojai.com (the primary sponsor of the People's Candidate Forum), I welcome you all to come and ask questions directly of the people running for Ojai's city council. I only urge you to try to be civil. I never imagined that I would be trying to quell the anger of progressives against other progressives. Ridicules.

On another note. A few volunteers and myself are paying for all aspects of the forum on Saturday and we need a little help. Not so much with the monetary end, although that's always welcome, but we need a sound man who can run 8 mics with a mixing board and a PA. We can hire someone, but there just has to be someone out there who has the equipment and wouldn't mind volunteering for about three hours this Saturday in the name of democracy. How 'bout it. My email is spk22@pacbell.net.

SPK always delights me with what i enjoy as his clarity and wisdom.

it does not bode well for the peaceful world to which i devote a GREAT deal of my energy that progressives too often seem to have no better conflict resolution skills than the warmongers we profess to disagree with.

truly, i'm not happy with what happened to Ms. Jones. i hear that she's angry...i hear that she's still got concerns over being treated fairly...i hear that she has personified some of her issues in Mr. Klaif. one place to start toward a peaceful resolution is to find out how Lenny feels about this and what his needs are. but i think that should be done in private.

i'm moderating the forum on saturday, and i'm very attracted to the mutual respect that the organizers are trying to foster as a means of conducting a civil meeting that will be valuable to everyone. i hope the candidates feel safe to be there, and i hope the audience feels empowered to participate in a mature way.

Hmm. Evan, when you find out how Lenny "feels" about this, and what his "needs" are (in private, of course), do explain to the voting public how Lenny's feelings and needs qualify him to be a city leader. I thought an election was supposed to be about the citizenry's feelings and needs, not those of the guy who wants to be their leader.
I think I'm older than many of you in this Democratic group, and I could not be more proud of you for your obvious impact on this election. If I knew anything about sound, Sean, I'd be your sound person. At least I'll try to find someone who does (I have Happy Valley connections). But I am not sure you all are using your critical thinking skills. I once watched Lenny, who at the time was president of the art center, shut down a meeting and instruct the board to walk out because members of the public were protesting his plan, along with his cohort Taylor Kasch, to "professionalize" the art center a la Ashland. The art center was founded as an amateur theater, not a cash cow for a select few. I contacted an original founder, the late great magnificent Charlotte Bronstein, who kicked Lenny' rear into oblivion, and the art center remains amateur theater to this day. Maybe some of you think this is "TMI" or "blah blah blah," but for god's sake, concern yourself with questions that are more significant than how your favorite candidate "feels" or what he "needs."

Cathy - I know better than to ask you to stop. But I will anyway. The Lenny bashing is ridiculous. It sounds like some sort of jilted lover's quarrel. As far as urging people not to vote for Lenny, you should just come out and say that you think the incumbents are better for the city. Because that's the result of what you are saying.

On that question of incumbents vs. Lenny, whatever Lenny's faults may be, I think you are wrong.

Meanwhile, please take your own advice and use your own critical thinking skills. This election is about far more than what you think Lenny said about you to somebody else.

As far as leadership, I saw Lenny the night of your arrest, and I know the first thing he was thinking about when he came out of the forum was how to help you. I've got a good 50 lbs. and height on Lenny, and I wasn't able to get Captain Norris to back off, so I don't know what you expected Lenny to do. Steve Olsen looks like the biggest of the candidates, if you are going to criticize candidates for a supposed failure of leadership because they didn't tackle Captain Norris, why not criticize Steve? At least he might have had a chance in a knock down drag out with the Captain.

What's the sound of one person fighting?

I will be at the forum on Saturday and will be more than happy to answer questions and discuss the issues.

Len Klaif

Jeff: I guess my first question is: if I am so ridiculous, then why am I frightening you so much? Do you think people might actually be listenting to me, and that maybe I might have more credibility than your candidate? And it is a bit presumptious of you to state that the election is more important than what Lenny said about me. Perhaps your cavalier attitude is due to the fact that he did not say it about you and jeopardize your family and livelihood. Had he done so, you might be singing a different tune.
As for expecting him to intervene, I don't even know what you're talking about. Must be part of the rumor mill, probably started by Lenny.
Jeff, I am very grateful for your intervention, and I've told you so. But stay out of my business. When Lenny extended an invitation to me to enter this fray by publicly and slanderously attacking me,
he very well knew my reputation that I do not lose a war of words. And if protecting myself and my kids means the real Lenny -- the one I've known a lot longer than you -- has to be exposed, then you do remember that little clause in the 1st Amendment, don't you?
Actually, you and whatever gaggle of which you are a part -- you know, the ones who can't face anything negative about the candidate in whom they've placed all their faith -- are prolonging this by continuing to make me sound like the bad guy. If you don't want me telling you things about Lenny that you don't want to hear, perhaps you all should stop provoking me by keeping your sticky little fingers off your keyboards.
Finally, this is to Lenny: In this particular case, the sound of one person fighting is a woman with guts who openly says what she thinks, and a man with no guts who whispers unfounded rumors and relies on "anonymous" hench people to argue his case.

CEJ: You forgot to add, "I'll get you my pretty! And your little dog, too!"

So, how are things going with Ojai Frostie?

Dear another anonymous:

Why didn't you add: "Ignore the man behind the curtain! For I am the Great Wizard of Ojai!"

I provided the mic's and mixer. Daniel is providing the speakers and will be helping to set up for the forum.
Should I bring an extra mic for Cathy?

Just kidding Cathy. I know you don't need one to be heard. Thanks for shaking it up, Ojai needed it.
Brad

Hi Cathy,

I was one of the ones who cheered you on in earlier posts (yes, sorry - annonymously) but in all fairness to Len/Lenny - from the outside looking in (at least from this website) it just looks like this is indeed a one-sided fight and a series of personal and unnessesary attacks. He comes out looking pretty good in comparison by seemingly taking the higher ground. If you feel he is so unfit to hold office here in Ojai, then perhaps your reasoning could be explained. But to continue down the path that you are going is just hurting you and your credibility. Furthermore, I agree with Jeff - bashing him is only helping to maintain those in power and unless you can provide an alternative (as in running yourself) than I think your ire and wit can be used against more worthy targets. Please get back on track - or justify your position against this candidate.

I think it is fairly obvious that we Americans LOVE to root for the underdog. Perhaps that is why Ms. Jones is getting so much attention of late. But in her one-sided tirades against Mr. Klaif, does it occur to her that she is doing for him exactly what Captain Norris did for her??

Why on earth do people write comments, then hide behind the comment signing, ANONYMOUS,do they have somthing to hide?why afraid of signing your name?incidently, if you missed the FITZERALD tape showing CATHY E. JONES being beaten and arrested, go to www.ov-voice.net/index-shtml>

Mr. Rowe:

Really - what difference does it make who signs what? I would agree that if your intent is to slander somebody or put forth misinformation, then fair enough, you should be held accountable. I have written four posts thus far and I feel that they are fair and legitimate. Ojai being the fishbowl that, as a small town, it inherently is, I have learned to live my life rather discreetly. (Not everyone in this town craves or needs attention). That in no way means that I have anything to hide or that I am ashamed of my feelings. And it certainly doesn't mean that I am going to stand by and not throw my two cents in when it comes to the town that I grew up in and cherish! Signing a name doesn't change the context of the post or the exchange that ensues. Cathy doesn't know me, nor does Mr. Klaif, nor you, Mr. Rowe. So what difference can it possibly make?

Dear Everyone:

As I told Sean privately, I would never have opened my mouth about Lenny had he not opened his mouth about me first. I am afraid to repeat what he was saying about me (information he claimed to have gotten from Norris) because even false rumors, if repeated enough,can start to sound true and I can't afford to lose my business or have my children hurt. Norris left huge bruises on me -- Lenny could have done even more damage. He and I have discussed it; Norris and I have discussed it; and they are protecting each other. The only reason this thing keeps going on and on is now I am having to defend myself for the temerity of saying I do not think Lenny is a good candidate. I don't. And one reason is because he so immature, he spread rumors about little ol' me because he thought I upstaged him at the forum. Nothing could have been further from my mind.

Peace?

Cathy:

You've been through a lot -so much of what has been said and written is understandable...

What I'd LOVE to see is that you keep calm, keep your "eye on the prize" and choose your battles wisely... The whole town potentially benefits! (Personally, I'd love to see you and Jeff run as a team!!) I don't know him either, but he seems like someone who really cares (and is more than competent enough) to make a difference in our currently fragile little town.

Anyway, still a fan! Keep at it.

Peace!!! Definitely...

ANONYMOUS, LONG TIME OJAI RESIDENT,WHY THE FEAR OF SIGNING YOUR NAME?ARE YOU ASHAMED, GUILTY,OR FEARFUL.
ITS CALLED SAILING UNDER FALSE COLORS IN THE WORLD FORUM.

There is free speech....and there is free to be anonymous...and there is free to be silent...you should choose the last one in this forum, as you are just trying to make a mountain of a mole hill...so you can print it!

Another LONG TIME OJAI RESIDENT....

Brad

Will the incumbents even show up?
Let's see a sample of some questions to be asked and to whom...
Let's get on the same page so we don't waste the 30 questions or two hours...whichever comes first.
And let's quit snipping at each other...here or anywhere in town...Agree to disagree here...and pose a question at the forum for all to discuss BEFORE the election.

Regards,
Brad

Ms Jones seems to think that she is accomplishing something by her civil disobediance, but her credibility is seriously at risk with her histrionics and attempt to gain notoriety for herself.
Let's be honest: her tirade is not about the City Council, but is about her huge need for attention.

I had hoped to keep the sniping and histrionics to a minimum on this thread, but oh well--what can you do.

Some might well be surprised by where support for this democratic forum has come. There have been several people who have given money, time, equipment, energy and guidance. It's come from quarters I didn't even expect, but that's what democracy is all about. Without their support, the People's Candidate Forum happening later today would not be possible. The funny thing is that most of them have been posting right here in this thread, often against each other. Well, democracy 'aint always pretty, but I believe it's our best hope--especially now. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit nervous, but I think everything will go well.

Now for the official stuff:

I'm proud to announce that Evan Austin of the Ojai Peace Coalition has agreed to be the MC and moderator of the event. He'll be calling out the randomly drawn raffle numbers for the 30 lucky questioners. Each questioner will be allowed one question to be asked of one candidate. The questioner can request that the other candidates address his/her question, but that is entirely up to the candidates. The candidates in turn can discuss any issue brought up by any question with each other at will--also entirely up to them. The only time limit will be 2 hrs or 30 questions, but we are interested in getting as many questions asked as possible. The questioners will have only the one question, but they can respond if the candidates wish to engage them on their question. It's that straightforward. Please come and celebrate democracy with us.

I was at the the candidate forum today....
My conclusion: Bureaucracy is born from long winded statements from the uninformed....
Brad

Did anyone actually show up for this?

Well I did, and in what can only be described as serendipitous, mine was the first ticket drawn and I got to ask the first question. Joe DiVito was a no show, which only demonstrated that he takes his marbles and goes home if the event can't be choreographed by his pals, and his sidekick, Norris, isn't allowed to bully anyone who doesn't comply with Joe's idea of order.
With real people directly asking hard-hitting questions, I thought we got a truer picture of the candidates than I had seen before.
Congratulations to Sean, Evan, Brad and everyone else who pulled this off. And at least one very cute security person made me consider acting up just so I could get dragged out again!

The Peoples Candidates forum was a success. As pure entertainment, it may not be much, but between 60 -80 people attended and many were able to ask questions directly of the candidates. As for No One above, I wonder if you're actually Joe Devito. Mr. Devito was the only candidate for Ojai City Council who didn't show up to speak directly with his constituents. In fact, word has it that when asked if he planned to attend, he scoffed and said, "That's grade school politics." If this is really how Mr. Devito feels about Democracy, I hope people will put him in his place--retirement.

Beyond that, I'm cutting together the footage from several of the cameras and I'm trying to get it to Carol this afternoon to get it on channel 10 tonight.

Ms Jones seems to think that she is accomplishing something by her civil disobediance, but her credibility is seriously at risk with her histrionics and attempt to gain notoriety for herself.
Let's be honest: her tirade is not about the City Council, but is about her huge need for attention.

Posted by: Miranda

Dear Miranda,

Is your last name "Rights" by any chance?
Just a thought......

I have just received that the People's Candidate Forum will be broadcast on channel 10 tonight at 9pm for those that didn't make it. Also, I hope it will help you make up your mind for the election tomorrow.

I concur with those who felt the People's Forum was a success. I enjoyed it, and found it to be a useful learning experience. It proved that citizens can engage in free exchange of ideas and feelings without fear of repression. Direct Democracy works. Whatever the outcome of the election, the power of free speech has scored a victory.